16-Apr-2012, 10:14 AM
Well, I know it's not the orthodox view -- but is it any different than the way scientist date very old things?
Person: How old is this thing?
Scientist: Well, we can date it using scientific methods. First, can you tell me how old it is?
Person: WHAT??
Scientist: Well I have to know how old it is to determine which method to use to tell how old it is.
Person: That's scientific?
Scientist: Of course!
So, as you can see, we don't know anything about anything.
Anyway, I don't see it as "cherry-picking", just run-of-the-mill skepticism. (On a side note, anyone know where I can buy a cheap cherry-picker? I really need one to fix my roof.) There's some evidence that the first six books were edited anyway, so maybe the redacted pieces were more interesting? Even the stuff that's left in (like the references to genetic engineering and inter-species reproduction) is kinda weird, so no, I don't take it all literally. It's not that there COULDN'T have been a Tower of Babel, (there probably was some tower) but that doesn't mean that's where languages came from. [Was the tower of babel a rocket launch pad? Interesting theory, but I'm skeptical.]
Believing that there's a literal angel with a flaming sword guarding Eden is fine, if you want to believe that. I find it more logically satisfying to believe that Eden is under water near the mouths of the Tigris and Euphrates. It's not that it didn't exist, it's just that the version we have of the story is not necessarily a technically accurate description of exactly what happened.
I know most people aren't comfortable with my hybrid view, where Jesus is historical but Noah might be allegorical, but honestly, a lot of this stuff is over 3000 years old. We're talking hieroglyphs and pyramids now. There is no definitive record from before, say, the time of Solomon (or maybe David.) We weren't there, and we don't know what happened. More importantly, in my view, it DOESN'T MATTER what's literal and what's allegorical. The point is the lesson, or the moral, or the point, of the story. This is just like the if-then statements being true or false even if you don't know the truth of the if or the then.
Should you be nice to other people? YES. Should you raise your children to be decent? YES. Should you steal? NO. These things are not dependent on Hebrew letters on some rocks, they are universal.
And before you ask, NO I am not a Universalist. I believe you cannot redeem yourself by yourself. You cannot pull yourself up by your own bootstraps. That is the whole point of Christianity.
Well, this got more in depth than I expected, but frankly, it's good to be up-front about myself. Too often I'm too coy, trying to play Socrates. I'm no Socrates.
Person: How old is this thing?
Scientist: Well, we can date it using scientific methods. First, can you tell me how old it is?
Person: WHAT??
Scientist: Well I have to know how old it is to determine which method to use to tell how old it is.
Person: That's scientific?
Scientist: Of course!
So, as you can see, we don't know anything about anything.
Anyway, I don't see it as "cherry-picking", just run-of-the-mill skepticism. (On a side note, anyone know where I can buy a cheap cherry-picker? I really need one to fix my roof.) There's some evidence that the first six books were edited anyway, so maybe the redacted pieces were more interesting? Even the stuff that's left in (like the references to genetic engineering and inter-species reproduction) is kinda weird, so no, I don't take it all literally. It's not that there COULDN'T have been a Tower of Babel, (there probably was some tower) but that doesn't mean that's where languages came from. [Was the tower of babel a rocket launch pad? Interesting theory, but I'm skeptical.]
Believing that there's a literal angel with a flaming sword guarding Eden is fine, if you want to believe that. I find it more logically satisfying to believe that Eden is under water near the mouths of the Tigris and Euphrates. It's not that it didn't exist, it's just that the version we have of the story is not necessarily a technically accurate description of exactly what happened.
I know most people aren't comfortable with my hybrid view, where Jesus is historical but Noah might be allegorical, but honestly, a lot of this stuff is over 3000 years old. We're talking hieroglyphs and pyramids now. There is no definitive record from before, say, the time of Solomon (or maybe David.) We weren't there, and we don't know what happened. More importantly, in my view, it DOESN'T MATTER what's literal and what's allegorical. The point is the lesson, or the moral, or the point, of the story. This is just like the if-then statements being true or false even if you don't know the truth of the if or the then.
Should you be nice to other people? YES. Should you raise your children to be decent? YES. Should you steal? NO. These things are not dependent on Hebrew letters on some rocks, they are universal.
And before you ask, NO I am not a Universalist. I believe you cannot redeem yourself by yourself. You cannot pull yourself up by your own bootstraps. That is the whole point of Christianity.
Well, this got more in depth than I expected, but frankly, it's good to be up-front about myself. Too often I'm too coy, trying to play Socrates. I'm no Socrates.
"Bad news, bad news came to me where I sleep / Turn turn turn again" - Bob Dylan