01-May-2012, 7:23 PM
Quote:...and I can guarantee the proportion will be smaller in poorer countries, as more reliance on God (I think we can both safely assume this), and also each other, will be seen as desirable. How much of this generosity is caused by faith and how much by pure compassion (routinely seeing somebody in need because it happens so often) is difficult to measure, but it's simpler to examine the degree to which an American compared to, say, a Filipino, lives the faith preached; if this study is done in a poorer country, both religious and non-religious will be similarly affected by that same "need to share" and the religious population, with some emphasis on Christians, will be a more accurate representation of religious values. I believe that the more one is committed to Christ and His mission in heart rather than word, the more one's motives, as well as behaviors, will be changed...
I'm interpreting this as:
* in poorer countries there is more reliance on God
* more reliance on God means more development of relationship with God
* ->...better Christian values e.g. altruism, philanthropy
* ->...more sharing
I disagree with this in two ways. First, philanthropy tends to be more present when the philanthropist has excess, such that they're able to give without harming themselves. Despite the increased understanding and sympathy that might come from experiencing hardships, I can't see increased philanthropy/sharing in such situations.
Second, I disagree that more reliance on God leads to the development of Christian values. My previous post (sry for the double, btw) touches on this. Reliance on God. Such relationships would not be 2-way streets. It's more of a "please God, I need help, please" than anything else. 2-way God relationships can only exist in situations where a believer turns towards faith willingly and not because of some need that they want God to meet. It is possible, you could argue, that God could steer "fake Christians" along the right path, but why would he not do that with "fake Christians" that are well off and need no reliance on God? And what about non-believers, why doesn't he lead them on the right path?
Additionally, there is a tie in here to what I said in my previous post. People in your hypothetical situation turn to God not because he is self-evident, not because he is guiding them in the right direction, not because they feel it is the right thing to do, but because God can help them.
But back to this, why can't Christians in the USA develop better religious values? Why are only those who desperately need God to exist the ones who show the greatest religious values? Another tie in, especially with faith in general. From my perspective, people believe in God for all sorts of reasons. They don't want to die, so God has an eternal paradise waiting. They feel unsafe or are in need, so God will always be there for them. They feel alone, so God loves them. They feel lost in a world of chaos, so God has a plan for them. It's all built around (at least on an unconscious level) a desire for it all to be true and not whether it's actually true, and this seems no different. Why would it take needing God to exist in order to experience a higher personal relationship and better religiosity? Why would it take a belief in X for X to become apparent? My explanation is a combo of wishful thinking and confirmation bias (among other biases).
The rest of your criticism seems quite valid, and I do wish I could read the study in its entirety to both point out flaws of my own and see if any deeper counter-flaw information is present. But the main thing to take out of this, IMO, is
"Certainly there are people both religious and compassionate, but once again we are able to confirm no necessary link between religiosity and morality."
Quote: For me, a variety of personal experiences lead me to question the results of this research, the same types which have led me to choose God. James, you seem to have your own daily experiences, so let them hit the fan!
Maybe another time
