Looking for feedback on SexyFrogs: levels 1 & 2

[thinker]

I just updated levels 1 & 2 today: 9/18/13 with a few improvements to both levels. I also removal of an extra bomb that was in level 2 --that should not have been there. However, on level 2 - an elite player was still able to do the level, amazingly.

The levelset has been available for several weeks now, and it would be nice to know what others think of the levels....especially level 1

Thanks, Ian Wilson

[M11k4]

Hi Ian!

I just downloaded your set and am about to try the first level. Should I look in an editor? I don't like doing that and I fear it might not help get a feel for the level so I won't. I'll write my reactions to the level below.

00:00 First death by glider when trying to find a blue wall that wasn't fake. Opening the editor because figuring it out manually isn't fun.


00:02 Ok, so they are all fake. Why are they blue to begin with if none of them are open? Just to frustrate me I guess?


00:03 Second try. I guess I could start by pushing the blocks into water. I'm playing in Lynx so I can't flick one into (6,20). I guess I'll change over to playing MS so I don't have to waste the pop-up without knowing if I need it later.


00:04 Ok, so I don't need to fill that water just yet. I can fill other water tiles to get all the way to a blue key under a block. Glad I looked in an editor for that. So what do I do with it? I see a blue door I can reach... actually there are two. How do I find out which to open?


00:06 So using the teleports now kills me. Good to know.


00:07 The hint talks about a trigger trap button. So let's try to figure out which one of the 14 or so trap buttons that means.


00:18 Ok, so I've been studying the map a bit and all this water confuses me. Which ones am I supposed to fill in with blocks? And which ones are there just to fool me and could just as well be walls or something?


00:20 So if I get the yellow key (which was conveniently hidden under a block that now seems to be locked in place) I can get the teeth free if I'm really careful with the movements and happen to get the stepping correct.


00:22 Even if I don't get the yellow key but rather use the pop-up, I end up drowning all the teeth monsters in this area before I can get all the items. Because of the name of the level, I feel like those monsters are needed for blowing up the bombs or something but for now I can't see how to do that. So I'll experiment what I find with the fire boots now.


00:23 Yes! I can reach another pair of fire boots since I already have them!


00:24 Ok, so if I use the yellow key and drown the teeth, I can get to a new area since I haven't wasted the pop-up. Let's see if I can get out of that area.


00:25 Going through the teleport here, and entering it again might get me another pair of fire boots. Ok, I'll rather go to the start equipped with all the cool new items I've gotten.


00:27 I can now use the pop-up to get a yellow key and get to a new yellow door. I do however feel bad about having locked that block in place to get the first one earlier.


00:30 Next I should probably experiment with some button pressing.


Ok, that's all I had time for today. The level seemed very messy at first, but once I started playing I could get some sort of handle on what could be done. Still, after over half an hour I don't know if I'm even heading in the right direction. Getting further seems like it will take a lot of work. Will it be worth the time it takes to understand the level?

In general your levels feel very cluttered and it is hard to know what should happen. Even here you use many teleports which mainly bring confusion to what will happen when they (or the buttons) are used. On top of this you seem to prefer blue walls, wild button connections, hidden items under blocks, lots of thin walls AND complicated dodging far into a level. These aspects distract and subtract from any cool puzzle ideas you have crafted into the level(s). It lacks focus. My brain hurts just looking at the map. I see that you have interesting ideas, but I really hope you could try to make levels that are less cluttered, even if they are difficult to figure out. I hope you enter some more create competitions when we have them.

Having said that, I probably still will return to this level and try to get further. At the moment, most players, myself included, are still working on the hundreds of levels that are in the voting packs for CCLP1, so this is not the optimal time to release new levels and expect lots of feedback.

So there's my initial reaction to your level. Don't hate me because of it

-Miika

[thinker]

Hi Miika,


First, I want to thank you for taking the time to write such a comprehensive review!...and, I definetly wouldn't hate you for it, since you only expressed your frustrastion with your attempt.


Second, I do agree with you that if you haven't finished playing all the levels in the CCLP1 packs, that, that is where you should put your time. I did mention (origainlly) that I was making the levelset available for those players that had already completed their voting and were waiting for some other CC stuff to do, etc -- and that, the level was mostly for elite player as well as being dedicted to JB for all of his hard work with the CCLP1 project.


I do agree with you that in this case, it would have been better to NOT have opened an editor, but rather scurry around and find out what you can....the level is a derivative of another level called: "Audacious Scavenger Hunt" - which should (by that name) indicate that a player would have to "hunt around" to find items, and find out what is involved with solving the level, etc.


In regards to all the blue walls: I like the color of blue walls better than gray...and, if you think about it, it would NOT make sense to have FAKE WALLS in ANY of those locations where there are blue walls. (I think that there are only 2 fake walls in the whole level- and it should be reasonable to see why those two are fake walls -IN THOSE PARTICULAR LOCATIONS


To be honest with you Miika, at certain times, it appeared to me that you were mocking the level (1) and me.


For instance: you mentioned flicking a block into the water at (6,20)! Why would you even suggest that? -- since that can't be done.


Then too, you mentioned (probably from you looking at the editor) that there are about 14 trap buttons --which would seem confusing. Well, yes it could, IF you tried to figure out the level by looking at the editor first. I admit that the level is quite a complicated level, ( in terms of what it takes to get the monsters to do all that they do automatically) But, the player doesn't need to see all of the "mechanical aspects" of the level, to play it!!


Now, if you were playing the level, without first looking at the editor, you wouldn't be so overwhelmed..because there is only one trap button at (6,15) that Chips can get to (initially). Plus, the hint tile (at the start) specifically says that to activate the monsters, Chips must push a block onto a trap button (which you should be able to see at 14,13 -by going to 11,14 -which by the way, if you had looked around the level, while playing it (FIRST), you would realize that there is ONLY ONE trap button where a block COULD BE PUSHED onto a trap button - in the early stages of the level.


One of the main OBSTACALES of the level is that the player has to BE WILLING TO TAKE THE TIME to look around, as far as it is possible -to see as much of the layout, as is possible, and then, take it from there. It is also true that much of the level is blocked off unitl the first couple of keys are found - which then, opens up most of the remaining areas of the level. So, if you are in a hurry, that may also explain why you feel the way you do about it.


00:22 and 00:232 yes, it should make sense that -- doing that would not be the right thing to do, so why even do it?


It seems to me that most players would know not to take an item when they alreay have one.


OK, since you are frustrated with the level and feel that you don't know if it is worth putting all your time into figureing it out, you can take a look at MikeL's avi of level #1 ---by going to the NewsGroup at the date 9/6/13.


There is a link there that you can use to see how the level works. It isn't as bad (I don't think) as you are making it out to be...but, I am probably biased, of course.


I've taken your added thoughts (at the end) to heart, and want you to know that I very much appreciate reading about your points of view, (and, I am defintely not made at you) Thanks again!!


Ian

[pieguy]

I'm afraid I don't have anything interesting to say about the level, but I just wanted to point out that from the main page, this topic is abbreviated as:

Looking for feedback on Sex...

Oh my

[thinker]

Well, thanks for taking the time to look at level #1 and for offering your reply, Pieguy!

Your comment is most appropriate when one thinks that most of the men in the USA have sex on their mind, lol. The idea for the name came from the fact that a lot of the Frogs (around the exit tile) in the level are cloned by other Frogs.

Anyway, I do now wish (after the fact) that I had not named level #1 or the levelset "SexyFrogs" But, rather used the name that I have for level # 2 instead: "Needless Frustraion" --which would have been better and more in line with the level's strategy.

Ian

(all my levelsets are now current)