Giraffe Pack - Discussion

[M11k4]

Maybe having a single thread for all 1500+ levels is a bit much, and it would still be better to have one per pack. Anyway, I haven't read the rest of this thread yet, but wanted to comment on a minor inequality and a bust. I played Giraffe first as it had the least downloads at the time.



#28 (Androidal) in ms you can boost backwards off the ff at (9,7). Not much of a difference, but still wanted to say something, and it's not hard to make it equal by adding another ff. Same kind of thing with #29 (Fibonacci) at (12,15), though that is even less significant. (Talking of which, that level (#29) really needs a higher time limit; it's currently five minutes and it take almost four minutes to play through even with familiarity of the level.)



#32 (Death Box) seems busted by just pushing a block onto the blue button. I earlier thought this was the intended solution, but now took a better look and there is a longer solution that was probably the intended one. I have a suggestion for how to fix this, but it comes with a stupid stipulation: if you implement my suggestion, I would appreciate it if you also kept the aesthetics of the mechanism intact (they are only visible in an editor anyway). Here's a picture of what I was thinking:





Note the monster order and the gravel under the other tank. Now if the tank button (19,22) is pressed with a block, the exit is still not reachable; however, if the socket is opened and the blue button there is pressed, the level works as before. This works in both ms and lynx. If the mechanism is hard to reconstruct from the picture, I can send an edited version of the level upon request.



So far have had quite a bit of fun playing! Am trying to play through one pack per week, and not forcing myself to finish every level if skipping one here and there is otherwise more efficient.



-Miika

[jbdude55]

Motoring along at uncontrollable speed, here are some of my thoughts on The Giraffe Pack:

A number of great melee and monster manipulation levels at the beginning of this pack, with #1 (Maelstrom) and #4 (The Companion Block) really standing out. Other great levels in my opinion include #15 (Whirlpool), #25 (Sleeping Dragon), #27 (Portal Swapper), #29 (Fibonacci) and #34 (Deliverance), although I agree with Miika that Fibonacci definitely needs a higher time limit. Also, when you've solved Whirlpool, go and look at it in an editor and you'll see just how beautiful the level is (:

On the note of Sleeping Dragon, for the longest time I couldn't work out why the teleports wouldn't work until I realised that by trying to be clever and save blocks, I had partial posted with fireballs and ended up with them stuck on teleports and a whole mess of other problems...Though this is a negative reflection on myself, the player, rather than the level, which is great!

#31 (Release Me) and #40 (Enter the Teleport), while both good levels in their own right, were a little on the tricky side for me. At least the latter, which I would place on the same plane of deviousness as CITYBLOCK's final room was the whole level, and not just an infuriating gimmick tagged on at the very end to annoy and frustrate a player probably lacking in concentration.

#35 (The Bugs and the Bees) appears to be busted, since there is no chip socket even though 5 chips are "required". This defeats the purpose of having two paths, one of which is supposed to be the "correct" one (by knowing whether the monsters follow the central chip or the outer wall), since you could pick either one and simply follow the monsters without picking up the chips. While this isn't faster or significantly easier, I feel it was not the solution the designer had in mind, since aside from this it's actually not a bad level.

Is #41 (REW) supposed to be a joke? I understand that CCLP1 is supposed to be a replacement for the original CC1, but it makes no sense to me why we should include a level that consists almost entirely of cut-and-pasted sections of CC1 levels Taking the concepts and altering/improving them in some way is fine by me, but outright copying them into another level defeats the purpose of a "new" level pack. In order of appearance, BLOBDANCE, MIX UP, BLOCK N ROLL, MIXED NUTS, AMSTERDAM, OPEN QUESTION, SPOOKS and NUTS AND BOLTS from CC1 are represented, with only AMSTERDAM not looking (to a moderate inspection by me, at least) like a complete cut-and-paste job. I apologize to whoever designed this level (which I assume to be short for "Rewind"?), since again, it's a perfectly good level, but I'm not impressed with its inclusion in CCLP1 voting.

Ending on a positive note though, #39 (Hate This and I'll Love You) has perhaps the greatest hint message of all time. If the reverse of the level's title is also true, then I don't mind admitting that we are now enemies

[Syzygy]

Miika wrote:

>>I haven't read the rest of this thread yet, but wanted to comment on a minor inequality and a bust. I played >>Giraffe first as it had the least downloads at the time.

>>#28 (Androidal) in ms you can boost backwards off the ff at (9,7). Not much of a difference, but still wanted to >>say something, and it's not hard to make it equal by adding another ff. Same kind of thing with #29 (Fibonacci) >>at (12,15), though that is even less significant.

One can boost off the FF at 9,7 but would still need to move the blocks along 11,8 - 5,14, there are chips under them. Your boost would actually cost time.

I had suggested a blank line under each level on the voting pages as a way to make notes on any level, suggest name changes or other tidbits. It would be easier than looking up past posts through the threads. Any thoughts on this?

[Ida]

Is #41 (REW) supposed to be a joke? I understand that CCLP1 is supposed to be a replacement for the original CC1, but it makes no sense to me why we should include a level that consists almost entirely of cut-and-pasted sections of CC1 levels Taking the concepts and altering/improving them in some way is fine by me, but outright copying them into another level defeats the purpose of a "new" level pack. In order of appearance, BLOBDANCE, MIX UP, BLOCK N ROLL, MIXED NUTS, AMSTERDAM, OPEN QUESTION, SPOOKS and NUTS AND BOLTS from CC1 are represented, with only AMSTERDAM not looking (to a moderate inspection by me, at least) like a complete cut-and-paste job. I apologize to whoever designed this level (which I assume to be short for "Rewind"?), since again, it's a perfectly good level, but I'm not impressed with its inclusion in CCLP1 voting.

I designed this level a long time ago, along with the level FFW. The names come from the labels on the buttons of the old compact cassette and VHS players (for Rewind and Fast Forward). CCLP1 was not even in discussion when I made these levels, and when the call for levels came, I just submitted my whole levelsets. I was surprised myself that these levels weren't blacklisted in the first place. But anyway, if they aren't ineligible for copyright issues, I don't think they are bad levels.

[Syzygy]

M11k4, I tried your suggested fix for Girraffe #32 (Death Box). It works pretty good. The tank next to the exit doesn't move until the button behind the socket is pushed. Does the order of the tanks make a difference in the mechanism or gameplay?

[M11k4]

M11k4, I tried your suggested fix for Girraffe #32 (Death Box). It works pretty good. The tank next to the exit doesn't move until the button behind the socket is pushed. Does the order of the tanks make a difference in the mechanism or gameplay?

The monster order matters when "tank 7" hits the tank button, since it moves after "tank 6" it will get trapped on the button. I guess they could be before "tank 5" but it doesn't matter that much. The orientation matters for lynx, and the fact that the cloner has a pink ball and not a block. I also noticed the clone button and "tank 6" could both be moved up a tile and it would still work the same. Actually I took another look at the mechanism and found a way to do it without the cloner or the ff (which could cause slide delay effects in ms theoretically). This also takes up slightly less space:




Yes, I spent way too much time on that



-Miika


EDIT:


Ok, here's the cleanest version:

[Syzygy]

M11k4, I think this can also be done with one tank(#7 in your example). The other tank (at the finish) would still stay until the button behind the socket is pressed, but one would need to press it again at the same time tank #7 hits it's button.

Like so:

[M11k4]

M11k4, I think this can also be done with one tank(#7 in your example). The other tank (at the finish) would still stay until the button behind the socket is pressed, but one would need to press it again at the same time tank #7 hits it's button.

Like so:

Yes, this would fix the bust along with changing the intended solution. If you can't see this new tank anywhere, the mechanism will feel unfair. My goal was to create a mechanism that prevented the bust without changing the game play in any other way, and it had to work in both ms and lynx. So there were four cases: push a block on the blue button in ms and not be able to exit, open the socket and push the blue button there yourself twice to exit, and both of those in lynx. It still might feel unfair to someone who tries the busted method, but not to someone who plays it straight.

[tensorpudding]

Since I finished Shampoo, Cardboard, and Giraffe today, I can comment on them. I already commented on most of Shampoo and Cardboard, but I haven't touched on Giraffe, so I will now:

Giraffe#1 Maelstrom: I hate this kind of level...
Giraffe#2 Start at the End: A simple version of a common concept. Okay.
Giraffe#3 40 Winks: Not super hard
Giraffe#4 The Companion Block: I got the reference but I didn't enjoy this one.
Giraffe#5 Lots of Stuff: Not terrible but I don't like it much
Giraffe#6 Push My Buttons: A good tutorial level
Giraffe#7 Going: Ball timing is unfair as hell. Shame, since the rest of the level is really slick.
Giraffe#8 Caved In: It was such a *good* idea until the !#$#@$@# teeth room, which sucked my enjoyment out so hard that I had to dock several points
Giraffe#9 Keys Are a Girl's Best Friend: Okay
Giraffe#10 Balls and Walkers: Okay
Giraffe#11 Cross Over: Reminds me of that one CC1 level, whose name I forget now, involving teleports. I think it's really enjoyable.
Giraffe#12 Groenland Rain: Good. God. The. Tedium.
Giraffe#13 Sea Shell Collecting: Maybe it's just because it's following Groenland Rain, but I thought this level was reasonable sane for what it was.
Giraffe#14 Dodge and Run: Reminds me of NIGHTMARE. Enjoyed it.
Giraffe#15 Whirlpool: A bit tiresome, honestly.
Giraffe#16 Icy Enclosure: Random force floors make it more obnoxious that it needs to be. Meh.
Giraffe#17 A (Mostly) Simple Maze: A (Mostly) Uninteresting Level
Giraffe#18 Finding: An uninteresting level with a few interesting mechanics that nonetheless fails to raise its rating
Giraffe#19 Year of the Flamingo: Okay...?
Giraffe#20 Exit...Ice Left: Hated this one.
Giraffe#21 Volleyball: Too strange. I kinda just got it by doing random things.
Giraffe#22 Guardians: Gave up on this one.
Giraffe#23 Crystal 2: A bit tricky but dull.
Giraffe#24 Chipweave: Pure CC1 feeling with this one. It needs to make it in.
Giraffe#25 Sleeping Dragon: Meh.
Giraffe#26 Collectibles: Good tutorial
Giraffe#27 PortalSwapper: Confusing
Giraffe#28 Androidal: I lost due to time limit twice. It's not that bad though.
Giraffe#29 Fibonacci: I hated this level. Blue walls, ugly aesthetics, cooks...
Giraffe#30 Lost in the Jungle: I am bad at monster dodging but I still liked this level reasonably well.
Giraffe#31 Release Me: Played it when it was in Grant's pack. I found it satisfying intellectually but really, really tricky, which lowered its score. It feels like a CCLP3 level.
Giraffe#32 Death Box: Clever, though I hear it's going to be changed or something? Not happy about that.
Giraffe#33 Into the Corners: Good but short.
Giraffe#34 Deliverance: Meh.
Giraffe#35 The Bugs and the Bees: Annoying.
Giraffe#36 Parallels: Good idea of a level, but I hate how I cooked it completely unknowingly.
Giraffe#37 Exit Garden: Don't like it.
Giraffe#38 Ballwise: Great level.
Giraffe#39 Hate This and I'll Love You: Cute, and not too tricky for CCLP1, I believe.
Giraffe#40 Enter the Teleporter: This level is too hard.
Giraffe#41 REW: This level is absolutely wrong for CCLP1.
Giraffe#42 Close Relation: Couldn't beat it.
Giraffe#43 Burning Plains: Very boring
Giraffe#44 Slip and Slide: Boring
Giraffe#45 Inferno: Good level
Giraffe#46 To Press or Not to Press: It was okay.
Giraffe#47 Castle: The first room itself was a righteous pain.
Giraffe#48 Blocked Alley: Tightly-timed invisible-wall mazes are disgusting.
Giraffe#49 Wall Wanderer: Meh, it's an okay tutorial I guess
Giraffe#50 Clone Field: I liked this idea a lot.

[jblewis]

Giraffe#11 Cross Over: Reminds me of that one CC1 level, whose name I forget now, involving teleports. I think it's really enjoyable.
Giraffe#24 Chipweave: Pure CC1 feeling with this one. It needs to make it in.

Thank you! I'm so glad I'm not the only one who loves these - and for these exact reasons.