Too hard for CCLP1?

[AdrenalinDragon]

Ok, there has to be a way of judging which levels fit CCLP4 better than CCLP1. Something like Skydiver's Maze and Fireball Maze for example, I see as too hard for CCLP1 and would vote against it for that reason, but everyone seems ok with it. How are people going to work out what fits CCLP1 criteria without being a borderline CCLP1/CCLP4 level?

EDIT - I hope I'm not offending the designers, because I like these levels. It's just I feel they're more CCLP3/CCLP4 than CCLP1 difficulty, if you catch my drift.

[jblewis]

I can't speak for the entire staff, but my personal criterion is that any level in which the end goal is very obvious but in which the solution or the "how to get there" may take some clever thinking may still be appropriate for CCLP1.

Fireball Maze (I'm assuming you're referring to the grant2012 level) has an obvious goal: get the fireball to press two buttons and then direct it to the button at the end. Skydiver's Maze has an obvious end goal: hold down the button at the end. It can be plainly seen, but the "how" may take some thinking. However, the thinking can be done with the end in mind. As far as difficult levels go, I'd treat levels like these as much more beginner-friendly than the vast majority of the triple-digit entries in CCLP3, where there would usually be several options for the player to take but with no obvious end goal.

[AdrenalinDragon]

Fireball Maze (I'm assuming you're referring to the grant2012 level) has an obvious goal: get the fireball to press two buttons and then direct it to the button at the end. Skydiver's Maze has an obvious end goal: hold down the button at the end. It can be plainly seen, but the "how" may take some thinking. However, the thinking can be done with the end in mind. As far as difficult levels go, I'd treat levels like these as much more beginner-friendly than the vast majority of the triple-digit entries in CCLP3, where there would usually be several options for the player to take but with no obvious end goal.

Fireball Maze is the iffy one of the two. I'd treat it like Same Game, where you could be stuck on it for ages if you didn't have a solution in view. I played it for 3 hours and never beat it.

[jblewis]

I was wondering for a while if there was some sort of twist to the level a la Same Game, but no - the solution is exactly what one would expect.

[AdrenalinDragon]

I was wondering for a while if there was some sort of twist to the level a la Same Game, but no - the solution is exactly what one would expect.

But is it CCLP1 friendly? That's the point I'm trying to make. Do we really want to turn people into Rockdet like CCLP3?

If it's going to get in there, make it a bonus level at least. I could see Skydiver's Maze getting away with 140-144 though.

[Sparkman]

What about Final Destination, Tom? Isn't that borderline too hard for CCLP1?

[jblewis]

On Fireball Maze: I'd say very much so. It'd be different if the level was much larger or if this challenge was the last of several and would require the player to backtrack all the way to the beginning if a mistake was made. I think that's been the source of many of the frustrations associated with CCLP3, along with the last third of the set being comprised of one unintuitive puzzle after another. This puzzle is reasonably sized, and it's certainly not unintuitive.

[AdrenalinDragon]

What about Final Destination, Tom? Isn't that borderline too hard for CCLP1?

I've made peace that Final Destination will most likely not get into CCLP1. I'd argue that All Bit Busters Go To Heaven is borderline however and still may qualify for CCLP1.

[rockdet]

my personal criterion is that any level in which the end goal is very obvious but in which the solution or the "how to get there" may take some clever thinking may still be appropriate for CCLP1.

I'm currently trying to find something to add to that line, but it speaks so much for me. That's exactly my way of thinking as well.

[AdrenalinDragon]

Ok, I've completed Fireball Maze and its actually pretty easy and the solution was staring right in my face so that one's fine for CCLP1. I'll try Skydiver's Maze next.