Why doesn't this work in MS?

[geodave]

Take a look at this level -- http://cczone.invisionzone.com/index.php?/files/file/41-whattheheckccl/

It works great in Lynx -- the fireball is kept in place by the pink balls.

In MS it blows apart. I've tried many variations, but cannot get it to work.

Is there a way to fix this? I know it's related to monster movement differences, but I can't see the answer.

TIA.

[James]

When the fireball goes to turn north, the ball that starts at 7,4 is taking up the square north of the fireball, so the fireball has to turn left instead and the pattern is lost. The key lies in the fireball/ball collisions.

In Lynx, these collisions work as such:

1) Game looks ahead of fireball, detects pink ball, game looks to make the fireball turn right, detects nothing in the way, game decides fireball is turning right

2) Game looks ahead of pink ball, detects fireball, game looks to make the pink ball bounce back, detects nothing in the way, game decides pink ball is bouncing back

3) Fireball turns right

4) Pink ball bounces back

In MS, these collisions work as such:

1) Game looks ahead of fireball, detects pink ball, game looks to make the fireball turn right, detects nothing in the way, game decides fireball is turning right

2) Fireball turns right

3) Game looks ahead of pink ball, detects nothing there since the fireball has already moved, game decides pink ball is going straight

4) Pink ball goes straight (and thus, the pattern goes astray)

I don't really see much of a way of fixing this.

Edit - you *could* change the balls to walkers, put fire in the 4 squares where the fireball travels, and that would work so long as you prevented the walkers from going their own way...Bugs as well, although walkers would likely be much easier to deal with.

[KeyboardWielder]

Pretty cool idea. B)

What you want is for the fireball and pink ball to bounce off each other - which is what happens in Lynx, but in MS only the one earlier in the monster order will deflect and the other will keep going. Since it is the fireball that must necessarily deflect to achieve anything remotely close to the desired effect, you need to have the other creatures turning around on their own. For example, instead of pink balls, bugs N at (3,4) and (7,4) and S at (4,3) and (4,7) would work. But the effect isn't quite as spectacular. Perhaps a larger orbit and something with tanks and toggles, but that would be very mechanized...

- Madhav.

[KeyboardWielder]

On a related note, I once made a level fragment where Chip is protected from a frog by a stream of gliders on alternate tiles - such that there is always a glider in front of the frog on its moving turn. That worked just fine in MS, but not in Lynx, so I gave up. I tried it again now, and it seems that it works in Lynx in "even-step+3" mode...

- Madhav.

[geodave]

That's a great idea!

I was able to change to bugs, put the fireball on fire tiles, and add some gravel, and make something that works. However, in order for it to be part of a level and not just a novelty I'll need to expand it so there's some reason to go in the middle.

[KeyboardWielder]

I was able to change to bugs, put the fireball on fire tiles, and add some gravel, and make something that works.

Maybe alternate bugs and paramecia? The fire and gravel aren't necessary to make the pattern work, but maybe for aesthetic effect...

- Madhav.

[rockdet]

That makes me think: Does my teeth/ball trick in Mind Cluster work in Lynx, or it becomes slightly busted?

For those who don't have that level in mind, the teeth is in a corridor with a pink ball and has to enter a room one tile from the end of the corridor, so must get past the ball in MS, but I don't know in Lynx. According to what I seem to understand about monster movement in Lynx, I think it's ok, but just to be sure about it...

[geodave]

Well, if you tell us where the level is....

It should work -- teeth are pretty aggressive in Lynx.

[AdrenalinDragon]

If you are going to make a set, it's probably best to let people know what ruleset is the intended way I think.

[jblewis]

I tried it again now, and it seems that it works in Lynx in "even-step+3" mode...

As much as I love Lynx, I'm kind of glad that we haven't competitively reached the point where this terminology has to be used...yet.