Joshua Bone's level design feedback thread thingy

[mobius]

BEFORE MY VERY EYES: very cool maze!

Part and Parcel:

Fun concepts throughout. I really liked the beginning and two right side portions. I wasn't as fond of the left side with the enemies.

I move, you move; another fun and quick one!

Slime yard; was a really interesting take on "block factory" I actually liked this one.

Rule of Tincture: haven't solved this yet but I like the structure. What does the title mean?

fyi: I'm not a fan of anything that uses abuses glitches or unexpected behavior in the game, so I might not offer much comments on those levels.

I haven't downloaded the latest version yet so I'll be playing more in the future.

[Joshua Bone]

Thanks, guys!

_H_:

I am hearing you on the time limits. You've given this feedback on quite a few levels and I will try to reevaluate each level individually for the next version. I agree CONQUEST is a prime candidate for an untimed level.

The noise on MY MOTHER SAYS is just one example of one of the big weaknesses of CC2 -- the horrible SFX. I play with the sound turned way down. I've already decided not to alter my design process based on worrying about annoying sounds.

Didn't realize there was guesswork on THE AMAZING VORTEX, I will take another look.

A MAN OF MANY LAYERS is my least favorite of the new levels; I was stuck on ideas for those walls for a while. Maze levels in general have been the big holdups for this set. If I think of another idea I'll change it in a heartbeat. Thanks for the feedback on the rest

mobius:

I try to keep the levels that use glitches and unexpected behavior small. I think they're definitely fair game for bonuses, but agree they can spoil a level if abused. Other than MULTICHIP, I'd be interested to hear if you think there are other obvious examples. I guess I'd say that THIN BLUE LINE and SPIRIT PORTAL might be borderline as well.

On PART AND PARCEL, would you agree with _H_ that the left side would be better without the invisible walls?

RULE OF TINCTURE was just a result of my usual indecision on what to name a variety level. I think I started with the word 'grail' and did some googling/wikipedia searching to look for other medieval sounding names. I think I like the result.

Glad you liked the others! I also was pleasantly surprised by I MOVE YOU MOVE. I didn't want the level to lose its character from SLO MO but also felt like ditching the toggle walls wouldn't leave anything recognizable. It's not the highlight of the set or anything but it felt playable at least. I've been feeling ambivalent about SLIMEYARD, but am glad you enjoyed it!

[mobius]

when downloading the latest version I had to play them in the editor because for some reason when selecting the levelpack and playing only five levels appear in the list. It might be a problem on my end; not sure. Also fyi: if I say I haven't solved a level yet; it doesn't mean I'm necessarily complaining about it or saying it's too hard.

As usual there are totally new and amazing mechanics going on in some of these levels:

I particularly like the mechanism to push and pull blocks in Fearless Acrobat , Speaking of this level; the monster area in the upper part is exactly what I originally had in mind for my own level "About Face" but could only get it to work with 1 type of enemy at the time.

My Mother says; very nice one except the very beginning I haven't figure out yet.

(I may have mentioned this before but sometimes, especially on levels like this; I may alter chip's position in the editor so I can play other parts of the level. I'm sorry if this makes anyone angry but this is how I play)

Disintegration Integration: totally stumped on atm: I find yellow teleport puzzles very hard.

Hoopla was a super fun level! For being such a big level it did not feel frustrating at all. The yellow tank bonus puzzle reminded me of "Tank Blocker part 2B" which I solved once a while ago but since forgot the solution.

I didn't mind the time limit here.

Nice take on Amsterdam; another very fun level. Reminds me of Venice (except no evil ending )

Salmon Run: another nice concept but quite hard; takes a while to study everything and figure out how it works. Not sure I'm real fond of the walker areas at the bottom. Haven't solved it yet.

Nursery Games; another fun one; not too simple but not too hard. Good use of teeth

I should be more specific with glitches: sometimes I don't mind those levels; it depends. Mainly it's that the game is still new to me so it'll take me a while to discover all the glitches and unusual features. I'm still learning all of the non-glitch features!

The only level I can think of atm which has totally stumped me because I'm still unaware of the trick is "One lesson before" It's a matter of taste so I'm not really complaining, just saying I don't spend a lot of time on those levels, I mean I wouldn't spend more time than I would on another level because imo; figuring out a glitch can be hit or miss. If it's a mechanic that is unexpected than by definition it's difficult to discover. (I haven't solved the others you mentioned either).

On Part and Parcel: yes; I guess this would help. This area is harder than it looks imo, still haven't figured it out; I just wasn't real fond of it. (maybe that will change if I solve it).

[mobius]

To correct what I said before;

When I download the latest version right now all the levels are there but totally out of order.

I looked at the c2g file but I can't see why this is happening.

[Joshua Bone]

I reorganized the level order in 1.4.0 to be loosely based on increasing difficulty rather than original level order, so that's intended :).

Thanks for the feedback too, very helpful as always.

The walkers areas on SALMON RUN were designed to require basically no dodging skill to solve, coming as late in the level as they do. I actually was just looking to fill space at that point after a really complicated level. I played through the level again recently just to make sure and I still feel like they are fairly placed. My rule of thumb (usually, but not always followed) is that 'gratuitous' late-game dodging and puzzles on long levels should be solvable close to 100% of the time on the first try by an average player. In this case it should be obvious what needs to be done in both rooms, and it should be almost trivial to execute. If that's not the experience I'd love to hear what makes them difficult.

ONE LESS'N BEFORE is nothing glitchy, just standard CC mechanics plus a single well-known CC2 ability. FF behavior in the Steam engine makes it a little tricky to execute, but I can pull it off almost every try.

I think altering player position and editor peeks in general fall into the same category. Ultimately it's up to the player how they want to experience the game. Some levels could be absolutely ruined by this; in others, it's a harmless way to get past a single difficult section. I don't mind it.

On MY MOTHER SAYS the rest of the level after the opening puzzle was honestly pretty much just filler. Glad to know it's enjoyable filler :). The opening puzzle is surprisingly hard, and was one of those 'I wonder if this is possible' designs that turned into a puzzle that seems to fit the space perfectly.

[mobius]

A little feedback after some more playing today:

Footrace Through Fire swamp:

Graphically; this one is much improved over the first version.

Gameplay however; I found this one quite frustrating. If the race wasn't quite as tight I think it would be much more fun. (as is it seems you need to be absolutely perfect, unless I'm going about it the wrong way).

Uptown decision:

A bit overwhelming at first because there's so much going on in a small space. That's why I initially skipped over this one but I don't dislike it because of that. Takes quite a bit of thought and time to go through; cool puzzles throughout! Quite a tough one despite being a small level.

Is it intentional that you're allowed to go through the swivel door the wrong way? (this is a glitch with the no signs on top of swivels).

[mobius]

Played several of the new levels:

Much more time on the Golden Key would really be appreciated; The third room with the centipede and many toggle doors takes a while; and after leaving that room every time I play there's barely enough time left to keep going. I haven't beaten it yet.

Real Thinker: great level out of "Writer's Block"

Treasure Collection: really nice & straightforward one

[Joshua Bone]

Thanks for the feedback, I'll definitely update the time limit on The Golden Key.

[mobius]

due to recent updates; "Multichip" no longer works and is not solvable.

Also though I'm not certain of this; I think Uptown Decisions might also be unsolvable.

[I think no-sign/swivel behavior has changed?]