CCLP1 Voting Pack News and Releases

[Ida]

... But if it’s a level which involves a long pathway of challenges and I die over twenty times, I’ll “create” my own checkpoints. I edit chip’s position, the chips left, time etc and go from there. ...

I did this sometimes in the CCLP3 voting. (Would do it now, too, but so far I've only played the levels in Will's World.) The reason for me is that I really want to see the whole level before voting, but without cheating this way some levels would take far too much time. I mean, there are 1600+ levels (even more for CCLP3), and I want to play as many as possible. This doesn't mean that when presented with the same level in the finished 149-level levelset CCLP1, I would give up so easy. So it may still be a good candidate.

[Syzygy]

There were around 50 people that submitted levels for voting. Where are they? It looks like we only have 18 people voting at all. And what about all the other fans? I figured there would be many more.

[KeyboardWielder]

My experiences so far:-

Not having much time means I've not voted a lot.

I like the pack names, and that the variety in every pack makes each a fun product in itself. On the other hand, there are times when I recognize a level I've played before, and wish I could just replay my TWS instead of taking the time to go through it again. Ironically, the only '5' rating I've given till date was based on my past memory of it, though I don't remember which set it was originally from. I've given some '4' ratings though, and several of my '1' ratings seem to have gone to levels that attempted to be introductory levels but were either too trivial or too-complicated-for-a-lesson-and-not-good-enough-for-later.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems that new packs are being released too frequently. I'm not sure that encouraging people to vote quicker is a good thing to do, because it possibly means casting votes in a hurry with less attention paid than was due. It perhaps also makes those that cannot spend as much time voting feel less inclined to re-visit levels that they've skipped so far ("why bother when there's this brand new pack out now, and everybody else seems to be done with the old ones anyway"). I'd prefer that the packs were released completely at random (even if it actually be pseudo-randomness dictated by an undisclosed criterion of a certain number of people completing a pack). I think the suspense / surprise would make things more fun.

My rating criteria are pretty much the same general ones as Bowman's. Most of what Ajmiam outlined makes sense as well, but I think there are a lot more factors that go into the process than can be listed out, so I prefer to go on instinct in answer to the basic question, "How much do I really want this level to be in / out of CCLP1?" Up-voting an underdog, or for that matter over-down-voting a level that you don't like fearing that others might like it a bit too much - I think are incorrect, because you're going on speculation (and you don't know who else is doing the same), and so the end results probably would not reflect a true assessment of what people overall really thought - which is what the point of voting basically is. So my recommendation would be to just vote based on how you feel, and leave the rest of the judgment to the staff.

CC1 was easy - but not too easy. So I voted down "Two Mazes for the Price of One" because it was too simplistic, even though cleanly designed. While on the other hand, "Half and Half" does well to extend the concept and has a fun hint that seals my vote.

An example of a level that I don't know how to vote on is "Promise to Water the Flowers". Four steps from the exit, I was wondering whether to give it a 4 or a 5; but now I'm wondering between a 1 and a 2 ... Or should I expect that the staff would fix its grievous ending if voted in?



- Madhav.

[Syzygy]

Some say they can only go through one level pack / week. At that rate it will be around mid January when they're finished. People who have more time will be able to spend that extra time evaluating. I suppose it will be that much easier for designers to create a following for some of the better levels.

Some of the packs may not have the same chance to be re-played later. I've gone over my votes a couple times and changed a few. I find my scales are fine tuning as I progress through the packs. There are sooo many good levels!

An example of a level that I don't know how to vote on is "Promise to Water the Flowers". Four steps from the exit, I was wondering whether to give it a 4 or a 5; but now I'm wondering between a 1 and a 2 ... Or should I expect that the staff would fix its grievous ending if voted in?

I could have used a hint like that during the past year or so. Sounds like I could learn some design tips here.

I wouldn't expect that particular level to make it, but if it does... Yay!

And yeah, the level pack names are really good!

[jblewis]

There were around 50 people that submitted levels for voting. Where are they? It looks like we only have 18 people voting at all. And what about all the other fans? I figured there would be many more.

There are actually 32 people who have submitted votes so far. Not every designer or fan will want to participate; submissions opened back in 2011, and some of the designers who gave us permission to consider their levels have either left the community or are not-quite-as-active community members who left their levels for the project on the table and have disappeared back into the shadows. I had to track down some e-mail addresses for a few of these designers who haven't been around for a while to get some of the fixes on the limbo list taken care of. Some of the fans may also not be interested in voting; either they don't have the time to commit to it and would just rather play the final product, or they're more interested in CCLP4 or other projects.

What I will say, though, is that among those 32 voters, we had an incredible 3,816 votes get casted across the first seven level packs (350 levels) that were released within the first week. Some of the voters have played the levels before in preparation for voting, but others were doing so throughout the week and were even livestreaming their progress on Twitch.tv, which has been incredibly fun to watch. For comparison's sake, CCLP3 had over 2,200 levels considered and over 15,000 votes cast throughout its voting process, which lasted over three months. Think of it this way: you as CCLP1 voters have accomplished in one week a quarter of what CCLP3 took over three months to pull off. The most-voted level in CCLP3 received 20 votes throughout its voting process. So far, in CCLP3 voting, we've had five Cardboard levels get 21 votes each. Participation is higher than ever, and the marketing we've been doing on Facebook and Skype among the CCBBC has been well-received too.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems that new packs are being released too frequently. I'm not sure that encouraging people to vote quicker is a good thing to do, because it possibly means casting votes in a hurry with less attention paid than was due. It perhaps also makes those that cannot spend as much time voting feel less inclined to re-visit levels that they've skipped so far ("why bother when there's this brand new pack out now, and everybody else seems to be done with the old ones anyway").

Based on the voting activity so far, I think this is the result of an initial rush of excitement more than anything else. The pace will probably slow down a bit in the next week or so; in fact, it has already started to. Even if it didn't, though, I don't think that voting on the brand new pack vs. the older ones that more people have played is necessarily a bad idea. I don't think everyone should feel obligated to vote on everything, especially when so many others have already cast votes. We also have much more selective voters this time around than we had for CCLP3, which helps with the process as well. In the end, though, it's up to everyone to determine what the pace should be. If there's a strong leaning toward slowing down to catch up, then people can play and rate the packs that have already received a lot of attention.

Based on the results so far, my prediction is that there will be a handful of clear "winners" at the top of the results by voting's end whose averages range from 4.25 to 4.75 and a bunch of levels in the 3.75 to 4.25 range with which the staff will have to take even more care in evaluating.

An example of a level that I don't know how to vote on is "Promise to Water the Flowers".... should I expect that the staff would fix its grievous ending if voted in?

Yes.

[KeyboardWielder]

> ... "Promise to Water the Flowers".... should I expect that the staff would fix its grievous ending if voted in?Yes.

Based on that assurance, I've given it a 4.

I could have used a hint like that during the past year or so.

I've missed out on quite a few levelsets during the past year or so and yours seems to have been one of them.

I thought that the last 3 buttons all connected to the tank cloner, and the trick was that you had to be careful how you hit them to avoid cloning one tank too many. That's what I'd suggest the fix be. Even if that too has the potential to cook the level right at the very end, it would be intelligently done and not unfair.

My other suggestions for this level would be: Get borders at the left and bottom - the green doors section is unnecessary and the pink balls can easily be rearranged as you please. In my first attempt, I chose to go back for the chips as soon as I got the flippers, resulting in having to hit the clone button multiple times. Maybe the FF-E could be replaced with a blue door and a blue key placed close to the flippers. The water at (9,21) is quite unfair in Lynx. Suggested cosmetic changes: wall at (30,11), water tiles on row 29 as well, trap button at (15 not 14,30).

... Probably not the thread to discuss a single level in this detail, but just sayin' what the difference between a 4 and a 5 could be.

- Madhav.

[jblewis]

Can you believe it? We've gotten ten votes on every Shampoo level already! Some of the levels have even more than that, but they've all got at least ten. So you know what that means - it's time for another pack release - this time, the Vermillion Pack. Enjoy playing - this is definitely one of my personal favorites so far!

[Bowman]

...I don't think everyone should feel obligated to vote on everything, especially when so many others have already cast votes...

Personally, I want a chance to cast a vote on everything if I reasonably can. I feel I've done alright with the free time that I've had. Since voting has begun, I've completely finished two sets and am over halfway through a third. That may not be much for some but that is the best I can do right now. If this was happening during winter, I would be doing so much better.

Some extra time for those who have even less free time available than I do would definitely be appreciated. Not saying we need to slow the rate that the packs are being released on, but give as much time as reasonably possible after all the packs are released to be fair to everyone.

~Bowman

[jblewis]

Not saying we need to slow the rate that the packs are being released on, but give as much time as reasonably possible after all the packs are released to be fair to everyone.

That's the plan. One of the reasons why I did want to at least get the packs out at a fairly steady pace is because I've heard from quite a few voters who are out of school / university over the summer that this is the time of year when they'll have the most time to play and vote. It would be nice to focus most of our efforts over the summer, but we'll see where we stand once August comes to a close. If enough voters are still interested in keeping voting open longer, or have there are levels or packs that are still undervoted by that point, we'll keep the machine running.

[jbdude55]

I've been away this weekend, but I intend to get back to playing through more CCLP1 levels later this week once I've caught up on other things. I'm about halfway through Tungsten atm, so hopefully I should be caught up with the next couple of packs within a week or so.