What 'Elements' -make a great level?

[thinker]

If you have a very difficult level designed: as you probably know, the player probably has to start over and over again. It would be a good idea to NOT have to go through a boring phase of the level over and over again. Or, It doesn't take too long to get to a difficult area. You don't have a difficult puzzling situation at the very end where the player has to go throught the whole level -just to get to the problem again- especially, if most of the level is boring!, tedious, or one of the kind where the player has to guess at the right path, almost at every turn or junction, etc. Ian Wilson (thinker)

[thinker]

Instead of being negative: A positive idea is- I like to "see" what the puzzle area of the level is; where you can see what the obstacle actually is and reason out a solution right there and then. I personally don't like having to go all over the map to try and find some hidden element off somewhere else. (although, I have some of that in MyBest37 levelset) I don't think that it makes for the very best kind of levels that can be designed. Let's see what everyone thinks that 'THE' best kinds of elements are and what they like to see in them....that creates the most fun to play. I recognize that there are other threads that treat this subject or kind of thinking, but maybe, it would be good to MAKE A LIST, just like we are trying to do in the thread called: "Name that Strategy". Ian Wilson (thinker)

[tensorpudding]

I guess a rule of thumb might be to put monster dodging and luck-based elements nearer to the beginning, put sokobans and boring repetitive moving-things puzzles nearer to the end, and generally have a decreasing difficulty curve through the level. But often I found myself enjoying levels with difficult puzzles all the way through, despite how many times I had to repeat the beginning. Some puzzles are great because you have an epiphany that makes the rest of the level easy, but until then you try many things without success, wracking your brain for minutes or hours or maybe days. The truly best puzzles can do this more than once.

If the puzzle is really good, you'll probably forgive a little bit of tedium in the beginning (but only after you beat it)

[thinker]

yes, I would agree with the above post from tensorpudding, but it is even better to have great elements throughout the whole level....that is what I think makes for a great level.

I was ready an review several months back and the person was writing how he thought the level was really great because it was both aesthetic and at the same time, the level utilized ALL the tile pieces that were available -in that level. Good point!

Ian Wilson (thinker)

[BitBuster]

I guess a rule of thumb might be to put monster dodging and luck-based elements nearer to the beginning, put sokobans and boring repetitive moving-things puzzles nearer to the end

I hate to keep bringing up the same example over and over again, but...City Block.

Ideally, you don't have "boring repetitive moving-things" elements in your levels at all...right?

[tensorpudding]

It's not so much "boring repetitive moving-things" so much as "block puzzles that would be fun to solve once but would get really tedious if you had to play through them more than once"

[BitBuster]

Maybe it's best to just make those puzzles their own mini-levels. It's a lot easier to skip entire levels than it is to skip sections of levels.

[Lessinath]

That depends on how good you are with the editor, but obviously your scores won't count if you skip parts of a level.

[BitBuster]

I still maintain that Ctrl-N is a lot less effort than fooling around with an editor.

[tensorpudding]

N is even easier than Ctrl+N.