Special/Analog/Sequel Levels in CCLP4

[BlazingApollo]

Slightly different from "Levels you want to see in CCLP4", this topic will discuss what are your hopes for the special levels in CCLP4. By special levels, I mean something like level 34 (Cypher levels), level 131 (sudden exceptional levels like Totally Unfair, Time Bomb, Mental Blocks), level 144 (the first endgame; The Ancient Temple, Fireflies, Wormwood, YCTaOFNT), level 147 (notable for it's challenging difficulty), the final level, or even the first level.



Sequel levels are interesting too. What sequel do you want to see in CCLP4? A successor of Warehouse levels? An analog of blue levels like Trust Me, Trapped, and Magic Trick? A new Marooned level? But I guess we all know there won't be a ridiculous On the Rocks II or YCTaOFNT II because everyone will just ragequit when they see it.



Level 34: instead of letters, maybe it will be a morse code?

Level 144: I still can't think what level can surpass YCTaOFNT in terms of it's complexity and crazy solution.

Level 131: maybe Bam Thwok from TS2.

This might be a self-promotion, but I was hoping my Hypercomplex Maze would made it to complement Double Maze and Triple Maze.

But more than any of those, I really expect the final level to be something more than just the final challenge; it has to make the player felt like accomplishing a full circle (Mr. McCallahan Presents did a really good job on this). And it shouldn't be very hard too. Hopefully a customized script to create something awesome like teeth camera can be executed as well.

Also, let's hope for YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAP just because why not.

[Ihavenoname248]

Level 1: We have 2 first levels as tutorials, one as a throwback and another as a trial by fire. CCLP4 doesn't need lessons-the easier levels should ease in and anyone who needs the mechanical knowledge will probably start with CCLP1. I'm not a huge fan of leading with a throwback, and Entrance Examination is...harsh for a first level, especially with what follows it. And yet, a good first level will stand out on its own as well. My own Molecule, Rock's One Sided Trench, J.B.'s Proving Grounds, Josh's State of the Art or An Exit to Remember would all be solid introductory candidates, for different reasons. I'd lean away from Proving Grounds as a level 1, though, due to its length. It would definitely be a good fit for early in the set in spite of this.

Cypher level: My own personal leaning is to avert the tradition of having letters within the level and instead use a 'secret hint' of sorts, preferably hidden both in how you reach it and that it even exists! At first glance this would make level 34 seem to break the trend of being a cypher level but in actuality, it's putting another new spin on it. CC1 had the letters just there, as did CCLP1 much later, CCLP2 had a single password formed by the act of solving, and CCLP3 traced the letters with monster paths. Why not go somewhere new?

Level 131: I also like the idea of level 131 taking something that seems obvious about the game and subverting it, much like Easier than It Looks did in CCLP1. Time Bomb and Mental Blocks both required some lateral thinking, so I think ideally a 131 candidate meets both of these: subversions and lateral thinking. I can't think of a perfect example of this off the top of my head, but J.B.'s Exit Wounds, Ida's Lean Thinking or even Andrew's Chasing a Dream/What's Wrong with This Puzzle would work well. For a 'simpler than it appears' type of level, my own Data Expunged fits well.

On looking through sets for 144 candidates, I remembered I Wanna Be the Bit Buster exists. That is a perfect fit if you want to play up the 'unfair' side of things.

Level 144: Now this is a slot that has some tough levels to compete with- Fireflies is nothing special, but Wormwood is quite cool, YCTaOFNT is an amazing level to work on solving and The Ancient Temple is one of the best levels from CCLP1. I'd lean more towards the Ancient Temple side of the spectrum, personally. One Tank's Adventure, Monorail, or The Key Issue come to mind.

Level 147: Color Coordination, if not already used elsewhere/other harder levels don't do well. This really needs to be included though.

Level 149: Mr. McCallahan Presents is still my absolute favorite CC level. For this slot I'd really like to see my own take on the idea- Subconscious (level 144 of UC4) for blending together concepts from the four official sets prior. The other level 149s all felt somewhat lackluster to me, mostly being sokobans. For a non-prior set homage, maybe Tyler's Gimmick Isle or J.B.'s Japanese Game Show.

Other 'sequels': If they happen they happen and if they don't they don't.

These are my own personal opinions and as such should not be taken as a statement of what the set will be or necessarily reflect the views of the CCLP4 Staff^TM

[jblewis]

After spearheading two CCLPs, I'm kind of torn about "reserving" level slots for certain types of levels, especially after trying so hard to do so in the past. The classic example of this is making room for levels corresponding to the decade messages for levels 51, 61, and 131 to make a CCLP "MSCC-compatible." 61 especially is a tough one for which to find an appropriate level: for CCLP1, we thankfully had Highways as a top-performing level, so it was easy to slide it right in and have something in the set that qualified as a "thrash-a-thon." For CCLP2, Dale Bryan had posted a post-release message on the NG about placing Icy Moat in that slot because bumping into toggle walls was the closest thing the staff had among the top 149 levels. And for CCLP3, well...we considered Blue Moon but ended up going with Bump and Run instead, so at least there were options. These days, with CCLP4, I could probably count on one hand the number of active community members who primarily play CC using MSCC, so is it even worth it?

I think it can be as long as the reservations are broad enough to allow for all manner of possibilities from the voting results and staff decisions (which kind of disqualifies 61). I feel like we've reached the point now where we've checked off so many boxes across CCLPs that levels that are unique and interesting should be given more consideration for this set. After all, CCLPs are meant to showcase the best from the community - and there's no definitive answer on whether or not this will be the final CC1 CCLP, but if it is, why not showcase the compositions that are fun, of sufficient design quality, and unique enough that there's nothing else like them in the voting pool or in any prior CCLP? For instance, do we need to feel like we absolutely need a "Trust Me" type of level in the set?

Along the same lines, why not try something different with the beginning of the set? For instance, CCLP1 had lessons, CCLP2 just dove right into the difficulty with its levels, and CCLP3 had a fairly complex, all-in-one first level. Perhaps CCLP4 could start things off with a series of easy levels that would have been too complex for CCLP1. Pit of 100 Tiles and Ultimate Chip 4 are good examples of sets that accomplish this fairly well. We could include easy but not trivial levels such as the aforementioned Molecule and State of the Art, as well as mechanic-specific levels like The Other 100 Tiles's Hammered into Place.

The same goes for the Cypher level - I like Jeffrey's idea of using secret hints for passwords, particularly since we have so many levels out there in the voting pool that have them - or at least can be tweaked to include them. And it frees up an additional spot for another normal, non-Cypher level already in the voting pool. My only concern is that a lot of the levels with existing secret hints are mainly levels where you can walk outside the boundaries of the main gameplay area and find a hint on the edge of the map. Levels that involve actual work to reach the secret hints, like those in The Other 100 Tiles, are pretty rare. My favorite from there would probably be Pneumatic Diversity Vents, and I'd vouch for it even if it didn't have a secret hint.

Slots with a broad enough spectrum of material from existing official sets, for which I'm pretty much in total agreement with Jeffrey with respect to general definitions:

Level 51 (ice level): Ice in a Blender (IHNN-CCLP4 Mix) or Snow Patrol (Josh-CCLP4)

Level 131 ("unfair" or expectation subversion or lateral thinking level): Water Bottle (Markus-CCLP4), Lean Thinking (Ida4), or Skydiver's Maze (JB-CCLP4)

Level 144/149 (capstone levels): Monorail (TS-CCLP4), Repugnant Nonsense (TS-CCLP4), Gallimaufry (Chip56), Strandquist (Josh-CCLP4), or Toothankhamun's Tomb (if tensorpudding submits levels)

Level 147 (uber-difficult level): Voices (Rock-Alpha), Color Coordination (JB-CCLP4), or Lounge Act (TS-CCLP4)

Sequels I wouldn't mind seeing: Repair the Automatic (Caution) Doors (The Other 100 Tiles)

[geodave]

I am in favor of thinking about special levels for a few level numbers. Not the decade ones...i see no need to worry about that anymore. I would like special thoughts about 1, 34, 88, 131, 144, 147 and 149.

For the first level, we want something that makes the player say "that's why I liked this game so much!" Cclp2 failed on this. Cclp1 was much better.

I don't have any clear idea on the others yet. I could plug Oorto Geld IV, if it wasn't such a lame level.

And yes, YAYAYAP PLEASE.