Joshua Bone's level design feedback thread thingy

[Joshua Bone]

Thanks, Pulluxx.

The good news is I have access to CC2 again and have been working on the Walls project some more. The completionist in me would really LOVE to modify all 148 original levels, and maybe I will. But it's also been tough going lately and a huge time commitment, and some of the levels (e.g. the mazes and especially the thin wall mazes) just seem impossible to adapt sometimes. So I can only say it's an active project with no promises about the future. One of my design goals is to have (in general) a reverse difficulty curve so that the earlier levels contain most of the super-tough challenges, while the later levels turn into easier going. Then release two versions, one ordered in terms of difficulty and another in the original order.

I appreciate the feedback!

-DUNGEON QUEST is going to be significantly reworked in the future.
-MISBEHAVIOR and TELEBLAST are both puzzles that I built without an intended solution in mind, and thus got a pretty good feel for the player experience. They are definitely quite difficult! But I think they do a good job of testing the mostly uncharted waters of what yellow teleports are capable of.
-EVER PASSING MOMENT is one of those concepts that I would have made a lot shorter if I wasn't explicitly staying within the original level format. That being said, I don't think it's outrageous--there's room for reasonable error, and the safe way to play is just to follow the path all the way through.
-I might up the time limit on ROVER SWAPPER. I wish rovers were less annoying but I do feel like the speed boots help a lot.
-So, so gratifying to hear the feedback on DETECTIVE STORY! It's probably the level that I care most about in the set.

[mobius]

Some awesome concepts in this pack!

Hoarder: Great level, although I agree with . Maybe add a little more time?
Didn't realize until this level you could push blocks in this way.

Lessn' Before I'm stumped on!

Great train robbery I liked a lot.

Careening was fun. I REALLY appreciate having the helmet on that level. I remember an old CC1 level like this, but obviously without the helmet it's an nightmare.

Faces in the mirror: isn't that also a title of movie or some famous line? Or do I remember incorrectly?

The last several levels all have some really cool and complex concepts, even if they're quite hard.

Automatic Mining Machine: I like the level AND, this helped me realize how to make a somewhat similar mechanism I've been trying to make.

I'm curious; when did you make this pack? Recently or back when CC2 was made?

I'm not finished playing; I haven't beaten a lot of them; If/when I do I'll leave more comments.

[Joshua Bone]

Hey thanks for the feedback! This is a current set, but some of the concepts (FACES IN THE MIRROR particularly) I was just starting to discover back in the day when the official voting ended. I am also actively working on expanding this set, still hoping to renovate all 148 original levels, slowly working on #45 currently.

I'd love to see that mechanism you're working on. Yes, the level title is also a movie title apparently. ONE LESS'N BEFORE has a really cool solution in theory but in practice it's a little hard to pull off. PM me if you want the solution. I agree on CAREENING vs BLOCKSLIDE, I've always hated CC1 levels that relied on blocksliding just because of the high stakes involved on each push. The helmet really opens up some new ways to be forgiving as a designer.

[mobius]

good luck on renovating all 148 levels. [forgot to mention; that's a cool idea of course] It was fun figuring out which level was which. Since it's been a while that I've played CC1 I don't remember the level order exactly. Also forgot to mention; I love the Nuts and Bolts tribute; since that was one of my favorite levels and I like most of the Nuts and bolts tributes.

One thing I noticed in several of your levels is a mimic on some button [which effects some other part of the level] with teleporters around it to enable it to keep moving in one direction while chip moves around. I noticed speed boots always present in this device; why?

Anyways, I thought of something like this but wasn't getting it to work quite right.



My mechanism that I mentioned; not sure yet if it's doable or even something interesting/worth doing. It was a level where the player must not stop moving at all or for very long, if he does; the mimic device triggers something to happen which either cooks the level or gives some kind of penalty.

[Joshua Bone]

Set has been updated! Here are the release notes:

001 HOARDER (LESSON 1)

time: 150

replay: Y (3120)

bonus: confirmed

changes: none

comments:


002 PUSH AND PULL (LESSON 2)

time: 400

replay: Y (4850)

bonus: confirmed

changes: replaced water with bombs to make bonuses possible

comments:


003 ONE LESS’N BEFORE (LESSON 3)

time: 100

replay: Y (2180)

bonus: confirmed

changes: none

comments:


004 THOUGHTFUL (LESSON 4)

time: 450

replay: Y (4900)

bonus: confirmed

changes: now only 8 ants instead of 10, confirmed bonus


005 THIN BLUE LINE (LESSON 5)

time: 400

replay: Y (3740)

bonus: none

comments: A completely new level, replaces “Pool of the Accursed” due to poor reviews. The puzzle involves carrying a lightning tool across three rooms without triggering a catastrophe.


006 SPIRIT PORTAL (LESSON 6)

time: 200

replay: Y (3970)

bonus: confirmed

changes: none

007 IF WALLS COULD SPEAK (LESSON 7)

time: 150

replay: Y (3310)

bonus: confirmed

changes: none


008 SHE’S GOT A TICKET (LESSON 8)

time: 150

replay: Y (3600)

bonus: confirmed

changes: none


009 OL’ STUNT BANDS (NUTS AND BOLTS)

time: 400

replay: Y (3920, forgot to get x2 flag)

bonus: confirmed

changes: updated bowling ball area with thin walls, added bonus flags to fireball room, removed half of the swivel doors to make it less likely to get stuck


010 PROBING ACTUALITY (BRUSHFIRE)

time: 350

replay: Y (1990)

bonus: confirmed

changes: none


011 AROUND THE CORNER (TRINITY)

time: 800

replay: N

bonus: confirmed

changes: added ice to the chip/bonus pathways


012 HASHTAGS (HUNT)

time: 450

replay: broken towards end

bonus: confirmed

changes: changed placement/value of bonuses; all bonuses are obtainable now


013 GREAT TRAIN ROBBERY (SOUTHPOLE)

time: 999

replay: N

bonus: confirmed

changes: none


014 TELEBLAST (TELEBLOCK)

time: 999

replay: N

bonus: none

changes: removed bonus, made cosmetic fix w/ yellow floors replacing dirt blocks outside rooms


015 FORCE ANXIETY (ELEMENTARY)

time: 450

replay: N

bonus: confirmed

changes: made popup wall / no green key tiles separate to avoid bug, added 2nd 1K bonus at upper right


016 CAREENING (CELLBLOCKED)

time: 600

replay: N

bonus: confirmed

changes: none


017 DEADLY SMILE (NICE DAY)

time: 200

replay: N

bonus: confirmed

changes: updated the hint to be a little bit more specific


018 DUNGEON QUEST (CASTLE MOAT)

time: 999

chips: 15

replay: Y

bonus: confirmed

changes: This is a complete overhaul of my previous design. I think it is MUCH improved. The dungeon monsters are still there, but they are separated by many dirt blocks. All rovers carry hooks so the blocks are constantly shifting. There are four `auto-turrets’ which the player can strategically start and stop. Finally, a double yellow teleport system keeps you in communication with the castle, so reloading isn’t as annoying. You could probably also play the level using the yellow teleports to drown the monsters in the moat, as an alternate strategy.


019 ROVER SWAPPER (DIGGER)

time: 500

chips: 1

replay: N (actions all seem right but it doesn’t work for some reason)

bonus: none

changes: removed the bonus


020 MISBEHAVIOR (TOSSED SALAD)

time: 400

chips: 0

replay: N

bonus: unconfirmed

changes: significantly enhanced the secret area


021 INTERNET FREEZE (ICEBERG)

time: 400

chips: 140

replay: Y

bonus: confirmed

changes: upped time limit to 400


022 EVER PASSING MOMENT (FORCED ENTRY)

time: 600

chips: 8

replay: Y

bonus: unconfirmed

changes: none


023 REDEMPTION LEVEL (BLOBNET)

time: 0

chips: 0

replay: Y

bonus: Y

changes: none


024 AUTOMATIC MINING MACHINE (OORTO GELD)

time: 999

chips: 42

replay: Y

bonus: confirmed

changes: none


025 CONSTANT COMPANION (BLINK)

time: 700

chips: 23

replay: Y

bonus: confirmed

changes: none


026 PROCESS IMPROVEMENT (CHCHCHIPS)

time: 600

chips: 9

replay: Y

bonus: confirmed

changes: moved exit to make bonuses non-trivial


027 DETECTIVE STORY (GO WITH THE FLOW)

time: 400

chips: 3

replay: Y

bonus: confirmed

changes: none


028 FACES IN THE MIRROR (PING PONG)

time: 500

chips: 0

replay: broken

bonus: confirmed

changes: none


029 TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY ICE MAZE (ARCTICFLOW)

time: 800

chips: 82

replay: Y

bonus: confirmed

comments: Pretty difficult as far as mazes go. I definitely amplified the theme from its predecessor about it being easier to get to a boot than to return with it. There are four maze rooms, but three of them are played differently with the ice boots than without, leading to seven distinct mazes.


030 BUTTON SMASHER (MISHMESH)

time: 600

chips: 36

replay: N

bonus: none

comments: Another difficult maze. It’s exactly the maze from Mishmesh but the buttons are wired such that all toggle floors are acting walls, and all toggle walls are acting floors. I apologize in advance!


031 PRETZEL (KNOT)

time: 150

chips: 46

replay: Y

bonus: none

comments: Railroads and popup walls, nothing too terribly difficult. The biggest challenge is unraveling the knot and ending up near the exit.


032 SWIVEL MAZE (SCAVENGER HUNT)

time: 400

chips: 18

replay: N

bonus: none

comments: I was at a loss for what to do with these walls. Replacing all the SE corners with swivel doors makes it an easy and casual experience.


033 FIGHTING FIRE WITH ICE (ON THE ROCKS)

time: 900

chips: 9

replay: N

bonus: none

comments: Streams of ice blocks pour out of each cloner when the button is pressed. It’s much faster paced than ON THE ROCKS but still requires planning.


034 RELICS OF A LOST AGE (CYPHER)

time: 555

chips: 113

replay: Y

bonus: confirmed

comments: Aiming for casual play here. The walls and floors are CYPHER are inverted, and the level is about ‘excavating’ these relics from a lost age when levels were password protected.


035 STACKS (LEMMINGS)

time: 400

chips: 10

replay: N

bonus: confirmed

comments: Action level with plenty of hiding spaces. There’s just enough chaos outside the stacks to make planning your next move a challenge.


036 SLIDESHOW SIDESHOW (LADDER)

time: 350

chips: 27

replay: N

bonus: confirmed

comments: The two big puzzle rooms (S and E) are the focus of this level.


037 BULLSEYE VILLAGE (SEEING STARS)

time: 400

chips: 37

replay: N

bonus: none

comments: The original level is almost unrecognizable due to the bullseye rings and invisible walls. It’s a simple invisible wall maze with a little bit of dodging.


038 DOUBLE E FINAL (SAMPLER)

time: 600

chips: 0

replay: Y

bonus: confirmed

comments: This logic exam consists of 9 electricity puzzles. Solving each allows you access to the next room. The two blue keys in the starting room allow you to skip up to 2 problems, or can be used for bonuses at the end.


039 WHEN MY GOBBLING DAYS ARE OVER (GLUT)

time: 200

chips: 0

replay: Y

bonus: none

comments: I was always confused by GLUT. It seemed very pointless with the immobile teeth monsters and low chip count. This is my updated vision for what the idea should have been, the trick being to avoid teeth while shedding blue keys and clearing a path to the exit.


040 TANTALIZING BARRIERS (FLOORGASBORG)

time: 600

chips: 1

replay: N

bonus: none

comments: The chips form the effective walls of this level. Pick up one and you won’t be able to exit. I’d rate this as a fairly difficult puzzle.


041 DOWNRIVER PUSH (I.C. YOU)

time: 0

chips: 56

replay: N

bonus: none

comments: My untimed dirt block & water level for the set. Substituting blocks for walls and water for floors wasn’t quite possible, so I added 4 bowling balls to be used creatively. Oh, and I left all the ants and teleports in just because.


042 BEWARE OF SHAPESHIFTER

time: 500

chips: 0

replay: N

bonus: none

comments: This is another level where I build on the original concept. It will keep you on your toes! At each corner you have about a second to identify which will be the safe hiding square after the monster passes through one, two or three transmogrifiers.


043 SYNCHRONOUS MODE BLOCKING (LOCK BLOCK)

time: 700

chips: 0

replay: N

bonus: confirmed

comments: The hook really seems like it should make your life easier than it does.

(044 based on REFRACTION is missing and remains under construction)


045 FOOTRACE THROUGH FIRE SWAMP

time: 600

chips: 41

replay: N

bonus: none

comments: A few different puzzle concepts on the right side form the slow buildup for the footrace on the left.


046 FEARLESS ACROBAT (THREE DOORS)

time: 450

chips: 37

replay: Y

bonus: confirmed

comments: One opening puzzle, and then three dodging concepts. Hidden bonus.


047 DAY TRADER ON ICE (PIER SEVEN)

time: 90

chips: 4

replay: Y

bonus: confirmed

comments: A frenetic itemswapper around a central rink. With careful route planning you can buy yourself enough time for the bonuses.


048 RETURN STRATEGIES (MUGGER SQUARE)

time: 700

chips: 5

replay: N

bonus: none

comments: In each of the four rooms, you need to plan a route back before stepping on the thief.


049 ERRBODY GOT PROBLEMS (PROBLEMS)

time: 300

chips: 18

replay: N

bonus: confirmed

comments: My take on the PROBLEMS concept. Blue keys will be erased by the pink ball onslaught. Grab enough to get through the doors; the six extra will be good for bonuses. In the top room you get to set yourself up for success using the doppelgangers.


050 FAVORABLE DISTRIBUTION (DIGDIRT)

time: 800

chips: 16

replay: N

bonus: none

comments: Blobs are deterministic (you're welcome). Should be plenty of time for this sandboxy level.

051 WALKING ON EGGSHELLS (I SLIDE)

time: 750

chips: 113

replay: N

bonus: confirmed

comments: Each bowling ball buys you a useful split second. There aren’t any spares, so one strike and you’re in the gutter.


061 PAN DIMENSIONAL SLIME RAILWAY (RINK)

time: 500

chips: 1

replay: N

bonus: none

comments: It’s exactly the maze from RINK but looking very different and a lot more fun to play IMO. The colors separate the four ‘dimensions’. I made it more of a key hunt than a thrash-a-thon.

[mobius]

ooh goodie; I can't wait to try it out. There are still old levels I haven't beaten

[_H_]

I'll continue my feedback, for now with the next ten levels.

Rating: Concept and Design / Puzzle Difficulty / Action Difficulty / Fun

29 TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY ICE MAZE
A great level, I really liked it. Especially the bottom part is really complex, and took me a long time to figure out. Overall I needed roughly 3 times the 800s
5/5/2/4

030 BUTTON SMASHER (MISHMESH)
A cool concept. I think however, it would work better, if the level would be a bit smaller. I would definitely prefer a time limit of 900s, since a specially at the beginning the inverted walls are quite confusing, and it takes a while to get used to them.
4/4/1/3

031 PRETZEL (KNOT)
I guess, you put the chips on the railroad switches, to not make it too easy... But I think this really backfires, since you have to find out, where you can choose your direction, and where not, and therefore it's just solvable via trial and error. It's doable since the level is short enough, but not a logically solvable puzzle. Without having to unraveling the knot blindly, this level would get way higher ratings from me
2/3/1/2

032 SWIVEL MAZE (SCAVENGER HUNT)
I don't think I had to use the revolving door mechanic to solve the level, just for shortcuts. This way an easy and fun level.
3/2/1/4

033 FIGHTING FIRE WITH ICE
Since around in a third of the cases, you are unable, to push a block down, without stepping from the buttons in another direction, you can't push the down button to immediately push the up button again, or you will end up in the fire. So putting ice blocks on some of the buttons seems the better idea, to bridge around at other places, with the same problem, but without dieing because you can't push every block. And the third option of cause, have a lot more patience, and work just with single ice blocks all day long... Except for the fun of crazy cloning action, this level didn't provide that much more, except the recollection of ON THE ROCKS, which was cool, but can't be in my rating.
2/2/3/1

034 RELICS OF A LOST AGE
A nice concept and a well done level. Not to tricky, but required educated guesses (because you were not able to see what lies ahead) at one or two occasions to be solved.
4/2/1/3

035 STACKS
Too much dodging for me, at least for now...

036 SLIDESHOW SIDESHOW
A nice and easy level. If the intended solution of the bottom puzzle is not pressing every button twice, and the first one two times more, than it's a bust, but I guess, it is meant this way, and the top rows are just there to make it seem a bit more complex.
4/2/2/5

037 BULLSEYE VILLAGE
Even if I think, there is everywhere more than enough space to dodge, it's quite tricky to keep in mind where the ghosts will go and where the invisible walls are at the same time. I'll save this one for another day...

038 DOUBLE E FINAL
The second room was a bit tedious, I think a 2*3 or 3*2 grid would be sufficient, to make the trivial approach not a real possible solution. Room number eight did confuse me somehow, and I ended up skipping it (I haven't had a second look at it, but if you can mess it up, to make it unsolvable by the wrong steps, that might be the reason). My favorites are number five, because it's fun to watch the signals, and seven, because it's a nice puzzle.
4/4/1/4

039 WHEN MY GOBBLING DAYS ARE OVER
Find a strategy to avoid getting killed, and at the same time get to the exits. Not too hard, but a fun to play level.
3/2/2/4

[mobius]

As before; almost all of these are really unique and interesting concepts; but very challenging for a novice like myself. Many I have not beat yet, but even some of those I didn't I enjoyed. I didn't try all of them yet either, but I'm posting in case I don't get to play again for a while.


Dungeon quest is a lot more fun now! The turrest are a nice touch too.

ROVER SWAPPER -- enjoyed this level; and managed to beat it with like 3 seconds on the clock. I'm sort of torn between liking time challenges like this or preferring no time limit, as it's really frustrating to run out of time on a level like this.

I like the level which replaces pool of the accursed but it is very difficult; haven't figured out the trick yet. Seems impossible without some crazy trick. Are there any glitchy tricks?

Process Improvement: I really liked this level. For some reason the very beginning stumped me for a while because I couldn't figure out how to trap the bowling balls after that dumb foresight, the rest of the level was fairly easy, but fun.

Fighting fire with ice:
for some reason, sometimes, when standing on the pink button you can't move downwards and push blocks. Idk why this happens but it's annoying.

Double E Final - a nice concept. Sometimes I find I'm able to stumble across the solution to a logic puzzle just by chance instead of understanding it; which doesn't feel quite as rewarding; this hasn't only happened on this level or on your level set btw.
Logic gates are a tough thing to figure out, especially when on a time limit.

BEWARE OF SHAPESHIFTER - it does keep you on your toes!

when my gobbling days are over: very nice one! that's all I have to say. Certainty an improvement over Glut which was dumb imo, unless you remove the center exit.

Tantalizing barriers -- a lot harder than it looks at first!


Are you aware that in your in-game level list; level 45 says "Footrace through fireswamp" instead of "Fearless Acrobat" as it should?

[_H_]

040 TANTALIZING BARRIERS
A Great level, definitely one of my favorites. Nothing is misleading, but the correct way is often not that obvious. At several points I had to go through all possible options available to find out what to do, except up to the end, I had no clue how to get the blue key, but than, suddenly, after getting all items, everything started to make sense. B)

5/4/2/5

041 DOWNRIVER PUSH
My first impression was, wow, a lot of block pushing coming up, than I thought, not that hard, there are a lot of blocks, but than I realized, you need a lot of blocks. I have to admit, I have not solved it, I ended drowning chip, or running out of blocks, but before I spend a lot of time, out of curiosity, how strict is the level designed, is it possible to solve the level with wasting a block, or are there just as many as you need, if you do everything in perfect order?

042 BEWARE OF SHAPESHIFTER
It took me a while to get used to the order of transformation, but than it's quite doable.
3/1/4/3

043 SYNCHRONOUS MODE BLOCKING
Another really nice puzzle level, the hardest part for me was to find out how to let timid teeth out; if you are not planing ahead, he might not cooperate with you.
5/4/3/5

045 FOOTRACE THROUGH FIRE SWAMP
There might be a problem with the level file. When I first played the level, there were several green buttons seemingly randomly in the level, and there was no exit in the level. After having another look at this level today, there is an exit in the level, the hints have text, but there is no way out of the starting area, which looks quite a bit different, but I somehow guess, there should be a yellow door or something...


046 FEARLESS ACROBAT
Great mechanics and a cool design. The only drawback, certain parts get a bit repetitive.

4/2/3/3

047 DAY TRADER ON ICE
The time limit is really tight here, and required several tries. I think five more seconds would be a good idea.
3/2/3/3

048 RETURN STRATEGIES
A great level and really nice puzzles

The fire part was really tricky, and the gravel part harder than it looked at first. The time limit could definitely be even higher, you don't really want to make a dumb misstep later on because of time pressure, and have to redo everything...

5/5/2/5

049 ERRBODY GOT PROBLEMS
Getting the blue keys is relatively simple, getting the last few chips proofed to be not.
3/1/3/3

050 FAVORABLE DISTRIBUTION
I like the idea of the concept, playing it is however a test of patience. The blobs seem to have a tendency, to get through the teleports exactly the tic they get turned of - not really, but the probability gets higher the more blobs are on the other side, to get one back, so not too much fun to play for me.

051 WALKING ON EGGSHELLS
Stepping on a clone button twice in fast succession seems to bust the level, since all doors stay open.

[Joshua Bone]

Thanks for the reviews, guys!

On 30 BUTTON SMASHER I could up the time limit. I agree the concept might fit a smaller level better, however I am also tied to the Walls. I'll think about it.

I'll take another look at 31 PRETZEL I don't like guessing games either, I made this one in a hurry and thought it was more of a puzzle than that.

I might be able to move the buttons on 33 FIGHTING FIRE WITH ICE.

On 36 SLIDESHOW SIDESHOW, yeah, that's the intended solution. I gotta make some of the puzzles easy .

038 DOUBLE E FINAL - I hear you on room 2. I did feel like adding the 2 blue keys helped with that though. I'm pretty sure you can't break room 8, I just tried. The top left button cycles the main circuit through 4 different phases. Just press each of the other 4 buttons when they match the phase, if that makes sense. Mobius- yeah, I might up the time limit to 800 or 900.

041 DOWNRIVER PUSH - This was one of those "I wonder if this works" concepts. I beat it with one bowling ball and a few extra blocks left, and I think there are several strategies that work. As far as I can tell, only the chips at lower right are impossible to collect without a bowling ball, but some of the other rooms require very long approaches without that extra help.

045 FOOTRACE THROUGH FIRE SWAMP

Very strange! I just downloaded the set from cczone and everything looked normal

047 DAY TRADER ON ICE

I set the time limit based off being able to get all the bonuses (basically one victory lap), plus a couple seconds. I want it to be a tight time limit, but I will consider adding 5 seconds.

051 WALKING ON EGGSHELLS

Dang! Totally busted

Mobius: 005 THIN BLUE LINE does rely on a non-intuitive trick. If you cover up a wire with another element (water, fire, ice), the wire is buried but not destroyed. Hope this helps

Thank you for the feedback!