What 'Elements' -make a great level?

[jblewis]

I feel like my opinion on this subject has adjusted since playtesting CCLP3 and seeing CC enter the LP generation in which casual play takes precedence over competitive or uber-mentally challenging play. And for good reason. Let's face it: many of us now live in a world where we don't have a ton of time to play many games, and we need a quick diversion. There's a time and a place for long puzzle levels, but I'm not entirely convinced anymore that CC is the best outlet for them, particularly with no save or undo features. I do, however, enjoy long levels like YCTaOFNT, but in a much different way and context than most other levels.

My general level-making philosophy is to focus on making presentation and gameplay work hand-in-hand. People will be much more attracted to a level with an interesting theme or clever use of the game's elements than a level with the exact same gameplay that features poor presentation. And when it comes to gameplay, there are several factors to consider - generally, if a level features only one concept or a few game elements, I try to keep it small (like CCLP3's Blue Moon) or short with respect to how much time it takes to solve the level. If there's one thing that CC Let's Plays have taught us, it's that starting over after progressing far in a long level can be frustrating, especially if the level is rather monotonous in whatever tasks are required to solve it. That's one thing I enjoyed about YCTaOFNT - even if I failed somewhere down the road, it was still a lot of fun to replay everything.

[rockdet]

^This

Minus YCTaOFNT: You don't put the hardest of the hardest stuff in a set you make everyone play, but something a bit easier with mostly the same concepts, adding a note referring to said level, so that interested people go ahead and play it to their own pleasure (and suffering).

[AdrenalinDragon]

^This

Minus YCTaOFNT: You don't put the hardest of the hardest stuff in a set you make everyone play, but something a bit easier with mostly the same concepts, adding a note referring to said level, so that interested people go ahead and play it to their own pleasure (and suffering).

As long as you don't put a level like You Can't Teach An Old Frog New Tricks as level 1, I don't have too much of a problem with it.

[geodave]

You have to have SOME challenging levels in a CCLP, or the levelset would just be too easy to finish. Doesn't the end of CC say "You've just solved the world's hardest puzzle!" ? 144 lesson levels would be boring.

[jblewis]

I think at least part of the reason why some ultra-challenging levels got voted into CCLP3 was because some people wanted to make sure that the community could be occupied just in case the next CCLP took another nine years to finish.

[geodave]

I think the 14x levels in CCLP3 are excellent. I don't think CCLP1 should have such high-level-difficulty levels at all.

[AdrenalinDragon]

I think the 14x levels in CCLP3 are excellent. I don't think CCLP1 should have such high-level-difficulty levels at all.

Maybe the secret levels could be the hard ones for CCLP1?

[jblewis]

I'd like to propose for CCLP1 what we originally planned to do with CCLP3 but kind of couldn't because of the storyline and the back-referencing in some of the levels: make the difficulty peak at 144 ("the end") and have the bonus levels be true "bonus" levels, with less overall difficult challenges (147 notwithstanding).

[AdrenalinDragon]

I'd like to propose for CCLP1 what we originally planned to do with CCLP3 but kind of couldn't because of the storyline and the back-referencing in some of the levels: make the difficulty peak at 144 ("the end") and have the bonus levels be true "bonus" levels, with less overall difficult challenges (147 notwithstanding).

Somehow, you could also perhaps link the story of CCLP1 to CCLP2 (Events leading to the first level of CCLP2: A Fleeting Memory)

[geodave]

Somehow, you could also perhaps link the story of CCLP1 to CCLP2 (Events leading to the first level of CCLP2: A Fleeting Memory)

Chip has partial amnesia?

Also, I like the idea of parallel universes, so CCLP1 could be the first thing someone plays, or it could be like CC1, but not really. (Every play SMW after you get through the special levels? The koopas have masks and everything is slightly different....)