Ravioli Pack - Discussion

[Flareon350]

This is the official discussion thread for CCLP4 voting's Ravioli Pack. Feel free to share your thoughts, opinions, and comments on the levels here!

[chipster1059]

1: This would have been a great tank level, but the block room is so late in the level it ruins the whole thing. Sad.

2: That's a nasty dodging level.

3: This dodging level is too strict in the ice part.

4: This is a very good concept.

5: I can easily see this get annoying, but some of these rooms are clever.

6: It's an all right level.

7: Again? That's the third time I see this level. First in JoshL6, then in JCCLP2, now here! I didn't really like it much to begin with, now I'm getting seriously annoyed. Unfair, sorry.

8: OOH MY BRAIN! This level is associated with something I wrote myself, this time. I might dump it on the Internet eventually. It remains fun, though, it didn't entirely destroy my brain like other levels did...

9: Um...yeah? It's decent...

10: I remember raging on this level back in UC4 (?).

11: Quite a challenging level. I didn't solve it yet, but it's quite a puzzle.

12: This is a really great level.

13: BUSTED: it is possible to infiltrate the paramecia to get the green key, rendering the skates useless. Other than that, I like it.

14: I think this was in UC3 or UC4, but Jeffrey did better levels than this.

15: A small level, but it is an amazing concept.

16: This was one of Josh's entries for a Create Competition here, and it deserved to win (and it did).

17: This would have been good with fewer teeths. Unfortunately, with so many, it gets annoying.

18: A good chip collecting level with a strict time limit.

19: All right, I'll give this a good rating. This whole CCLP material definition thingie is getting annoying.

20: This would be better if it were larger, so you had more room to guide the teeth and the slightest misstep didn't cause death/cook.

21: This level has nothing special about it.

22: Great radio show, and great level.

23: The hint is <insert clever quote here> Fine. "Keep calm and battle on." Oh wait that has nothing to do with the level, and the quote is not mine...the level is good...

24: This level can be cooked at nearly every turn, and that can get quite frustrating.

25: Does this level have any purpose other than looking like some ugly thing in some weird video game (probably) I never played, and claiming a CCZone award? What a mess.

26: Ordinary.

27: I have no idea what needs to be done. If I ever make progress, I will rerate it.

28: This level is massively unequal: in MS, it is possible to go through the slide as many times as you want, but in Lynx, random force floor behaviours only allow you to go through once, if you're lucky...

29: This is a great dodging level.

30: I played this in JCCLP. It's a fun level, but I don't think it's the best of the Aquatic Caves series. However, it's the only one I see in voting so far.

31: I think this is a sequel to a TCCLP level. It is a great concept, digging with boots is something I never thought of, and a great use of walkers.

32: I'm not thinking about the poem. Instead I'm thinking about another crazy thing I read. No, I'm not posting a link this time, but if you paid attention to the patterns you may be able to figure it out. The level, however, is fun, and the two ways to exit make it better.

33: I already played this...it's quite ordinary, at best.

34: The concept seems interesting, but the slightest misstep cooks the level. I remember another level that uses the same concept, in UC3 or UC4. That level, I don't remember its title, is much better.

35: Oh, THAT one. As mentioned in another thread, in Lynx it is significantly harder, and levels so unequal don't really belong in CCLPs, I think.

36: This level seems extremely hard until the obvious solution is discovered. It is fun.

37: I played this in JCCLP, and it's actually rather good, but EXTREMELY hard.

38: Yorkies??? That's the weirdest way to call a walker. This feels lengthy for a lesson, but CCLP4 doesn't need lessons. Putting a "yorkie" near the very end is very stupid, but the ending slide is good.

39: Password is EGTK and gets overanalyzed. The level is tedious.

40: Block slapping makes this trivial in Lynx.

41: It's nice to be able to do the rooms in any order the player wants.

42: Looks like I'm not the only one who tried platforming in CC (Artificial Gravity Facility). The thing is, however, that AGF is mostly puzzles and this is mostly timing. I prefer my level, but this one is good too.

43: I think this was in UC4. The walker can be slightly frustrating, but it's at the start of the level so I don't mind. Overall, it's really fun.

44: A small simple puzzle. Nothing more.

45: This level can't help me of remind me of Suddenly The Tanks Do Things in C1059-CC2. Both are dodging levels where the player must pick up red keys. However, _H_ said that extra keys would be a good idea for my level, and I will put some in the next version that will be uploaded by the end of the month (yay shameless self promotion). I think this level would also benefit from extra keys.

46: I played this in JCCLP2, I think. Ordinary maze.

47: I think this was in TO100T. It is an amazing concept.

48: I remember playing this in CCLP1 voting, and I think I gave it a low rating because I thought it was too hard. Now that I replay it after so long, it's really not hard, but it's not very fun either.

49: ...and gliders and gliders and annoyance.

50: I played this before but I don't remember in what set. It is a good concept.

[Flareon350]

7: Again? That's the third time I see this level. First in JoshL6, then in JCCLP2, now here! I didn't really like it much to begin with, now I'm getting seriously annoyed. Unfair, sorry.

13: BUSTED: it is possible to infiltrate the paramecia to get the green key, rendering the skates useless. Other than that, I like it.

26: Ordinary.

34: The concept seems interesting, but the slightest misstep cooks the level. I remember another level that uses the same concept, in UC3 or UC4. That level, I don't remember its title, is much better.

35: Oh, THAT one. As mentioned in another thread, in Lynx it is significantly harder, and levels so unequal don't really belong in CCLPs, I think.

46: I played this in JCCLP2, I think. Ordinary maze.

7. Hmmm, not much unfair about it other than the blue walls, which aren't unfairly placed. It's not meant to be solved on the first try. It's pretty hard to unfairly cook the level as well.

13. I was partially aware of this but no one else seemed to catch that, leading to me not fixing it in time. I will, however, fix that in the sets they are in

26. What's ordinary about it exactly?

34. The other level you're thinking of is Double Time Warehouse and you can easily cook that level the same exact way.

35. It's not unequal nor harder in Lynx. There might be explosion delay but you can block slap in Lynx, which pretty much equals out between the two rulesets.

46. Again, what's ordinary about it?

[chipster1059]

7. Hmmm, not much unfair about it other than the blue walls, which aren't unfairly placed. It's not meant to be solved on the first try. It's pretty hard to unfairly cook the level as well.

13. I was partially aware of this but no one else seemed to catch that, leading to me not fixing it in time. I will, however, fix that in the sets they are in

26. What's ordinary about it exactly?

34. The other level you're thinking of is Double Time Warehouse and you can easily cook that level the same exact way.

35. It's not unequal nor harder in Lynx. There might be explosion delay but you can block slap in Lynx, which pretty much equals out between the two rulesets.

46. Again, what's ordinary about it?

7: I wasn't saying the level was unfair, but my rating. Playing this level three times was rather annoying.

13: All right. With this fixed, it might be good enough for the final set.

26: One problem I find is that it takes the whole map when it could easily have been more contained.

34: But at least Double Time Warehouse is just the maze, no extra puzzles, and it's also smaller, if I remember correctly.

35: I didn't think of block slapping. You do have a point.

46: I've seen several mazes like this in the packs so far, and this is one of the weaker ones.

[quiznos00]

28: This level is massively unequal: in MS, it is possible to go through the slide as many times as you want, but in Lynx, random force floor behaviours only allow you to go through once, if you're lucky...

In Lynx, you can override the RFF (every time). Just press right as you step on it.

[chipster1059]

In Lynx, you can override the RFF (every time). Just press right as you step on it.

Do I feel like an idiot now!

Knowing this, I will rerate the level, as it's actually quite a fun puzzle.

[IceyLava108]

25: Does this level have any purpose other than looking like some ugly thing in some weird video game (probably) I never played, and claiming a CCZone award? What a mess.

Thanks for the kind words, Chipster.

(and to answer your question, no, I guess not. No one likes any of my levels.)

[chipster1059]

Thanks for the kind words, Chipster.

(and to answer your question, no, I guess not. No one likes any of my levels.)

Huh really? I thought that was a Jeffrey level.

(and to tell the truth you did make some good levels, like War Paint, but I think I'm the only one who nominated that)

[jblewis]

This might be my favorite pack so far - it certainly has the lowest amount of 1s from me at this point. Some thoughts as usual...

#8 (Buried Alive): Yet another level I completely missed before voting. There are a fair amount of levels that have attempted this idea, like the LESSON 1 remix from one of the previous packs. In my opinion, this one hits it out of the park and has quickly become one of my favorite CCLP4 candidates. Part of what makes quality exploration-oriented levels so fun is the thrill of discovering what's around the next corner. There are rooms here that feel "unsafe," where moving one block could spell your doom. And then you discover that with some care, you don't have to worry about much at all - which is a great feeling to have. I also love how the entire route loops back around to the start.

#9 (Ice Cavern): I appreciate when ice is used for something other than mazes, though those can be fun. This level is no exception.

#12 (Gone to Lunch): We've got quite a few great teeth melee levels in voting, and this one is based on a neat concept and is certainly among them. In the end, I slightly prefer Exit Garden and The Maze That Turned On and Off, but this is still an enjoyable thrill ride.

#16 (Western Standards of Living): I think what will ultimately decide the early levels of CCLP4 is how well the levels are designed and how enjoyable they can make simple gameplay. This is one of those levels in which everything just clicks from an aesthetic perspective and a gameplay perspective, and I really hope it makes the final cut.

#20 (Turning Tables): I'm not entirely certain what the designer was trying to go for here. It's an interesting idea, and it looks cool, but maneuvering around the teeth while also keeping track of the cloning and toggle cycles was just not something I found all that fun. Additionally, I managed to cook the level via teeth trapping and inconvenient force floor placement.

#28 (Bind Mender): Oh, man. This level. This. Level. I thoroughly enjoyed this. It's amazing how such a small space can rack your brain until you figure out the solution that's right under your nose. This little treasure is such an effective puzzle because it's not frustratingly long, and all of the dependencies you have to account for make sense and involve careful study of the map, which isn't frustratingly large. A really neat example of scaling a concept well. My only request is to remove the random force floor.

#31 (Lost in Foot Locker Part Deux: Electric Boogaloo): This level reminds me a lot of Occupied from CCLP1, to an extent. Not one of my favorite candidates, but it's got a rather unique aesthetic.

#34 (Bam Thwok): I hadn't solved this prior to the release of this pack, but doing so here was very fun - and very satisfying. I love how you revisit the same areas about two or three times with different objectives on each go-around, which is neatly implemented. This just overtook Double Time Warehouse as my favorite "push blocks onto buttons while stepping on them at the same time" level.

#35 (How I Learned to Stop Bombing and Love the Worry): I really enjoyed Nitroglycerin from CCLP1 because it was a bomb level that actually didn't involve tedious block-pushing. This level also fell into that category for me and is a blast (literally!) to run through. The lack of rigidity is a plus and makes the trickier chips to reach a refreshing change of pace.

#36 (Someplace Safe): One of the level design tropes we've seen appear so many times is the "elemental quadrants": you divide your map into four sections and fill in each one with a lot of either ice / force floors / fire / water. There are some neat levels that have used this idea, but by and large, it's gotten a little stale. This level, however, flips the concept on its head by scaling everything down, then making each section look basically the same, then making each section play quite a bit differently. You're forced to lose your boots at the start, which probably won't be the first interesting surprise you encounter. It's such an elegant composition and one I'd enjoy seeing in the final set.

#42 (Platforming?!): This was originally a sequel to another level of the same name (which is now unreleased) that involved a much more open platforming area. Personally, I like the contained nature of this one more. It feels like you're scrolling along an actual 2-D video game, and the decisions you make don't feel quite as stressful. It's also refreshing to be able to loop back around and start over again if necessary - and the path is linear enough that you know the area you need to work on if you're having trouble. It's short enough to avoid falling into frustrating territory but challenging enough to avoid being altogether trivial. A top-notch CCLP4 candidate in my book.

#44 (Rainbow): I feel like this level could've been much more interesting if the designer had gone beyond simply "pick one key and avoid the others." Once I got to the flippers, there was a feeling of "...wait, that's it?" when I went through the key maze with reckless abandon the second time around. If there had been a very specific amount of non-green keys to carry to the end, this could've been much more engaging.

Favorite level: Buried Alive

Least favorite level: Turning Tables

[ajmiam]

I agree with JB that this pack is good, it has only a few 1s or 2s from me and had nearly as many 4s as 3s until I decided to winnow my 4-votes a little more.

Some of my favorites:

(Note that just because a level is listed among my "favorites" doesn't mean it necessarily got a 5; it may have gotten a 4, and some levels that got a 5 might not be listed among my "favorites". I try to list not just the levels I liked the most, but levels that really stood out to me for some reason and may not have been mentioned by others.)

#5 Wrong Exit--Sometimes these "red herring" levels feel pointless, as you know none of the exits you see are going to be reachable until you get to the end of the level. However, this one has a nice subversion as the "correct" exit is inaccessible the first two times you approach it but becomes reachable slightly later.

#19 Secret Society of the Teeth--It may be lengthy, but it was fun to clear out (both the chips and the Teeth) and the little formations were varied enough that the level didn't become monotonous; I had to stop and think several times.

#26 Overlap--This looks intimidating at first, but once you realize which item combinations you need, and from that what order you need to obtain them in, the level pretty much solves itself, which is a nice feeling.

#35 How I Learned to Stop Bombing and Love the Worry--This is a thrilling level due to the time crunch, making the "Love the Worry" part of the name quite accurate! It really tests your ability to think quickly. You can't just push blocks around randomly and expect to win, but you don't have to be perfect, just be good enough and improvise and you should do all right.

#50 Concrete Jungle--Something about this aesthetic just appeals to me, and I like that it's a spacious recessed wall maze, meaning you need to have a general plan for clearing it but can usually improvise the details once you see where the chips are.

Honorable mentions:

Lab Basement, Chipweave, Bind Mender, The Road Not Taken, Bam Thwok, Platforming?!, Meteor Shower

Almost-honorable mentions:

#41 Center of Gravity would have been an easy 5 if it just consisted of the top and bottom rooms. Both those puzzles were great! Sadly the left and right rooms were really annoying and dragged the whole level way down to below average. (Having to deal with RFFs in the left was stressful and tedious, and on the right, you couldn't tell that you had to get the paramecium to the bottom-right corner until it was too late.)

#8 (Buried Alive): Yet another level I completely missed before voting. There are a fair amount of levels that have attempted this idea, like the LESSON 1 remix from one of the previous packs. In my opinion, this one hits it out of the park and has quickly become one of my favorite CCLP4 candidates. Part of what makes quality exploration-oriented levels so fun is the thrill of discovering what's around the next corner. There are rooms here that feel "unsafe," where moving one block could spell your doom. And then you discover that with some care, you don't have to worry about much at all - which is a great feeling to have. I also love how the entire route loops back around to the start.

Favorite level: Buried Alive

This one I didn't really enjoy playing, perhaps because the first half of the level is all about doing whatever you can with the level saving you when it looks like you screwed up (a prime example being the block cloner and clone-button-under-a-block at the bottom near the left side) and then suddenly once you reach the right side, it's all about super precision and it's easy to screw up the part where you push the blocks through the teleport to cover the traps (you can push a block down either the left or right column to make some space and see more of the room, but then it turns out the left column is incorrect--oops!) The sudden mid-level difficulty spike is very likely to cause mistakes and restarts.

Least favorite level: Turning Tables

Decent idea, poor execution. The area needed to be significantly bigger, as it's too easy to be trapped by the Teeth.