Waffle Pack - Discussion

[Flareon350]

This is the official discussion thread for CCLP4 voting's Waffle Pack. Feel free to share your thoughts, opinions, and comments on the levels here!

[chipster1059]

1: I vaguely remember playing this in another set, I think it was JCCLP. It's not particularly difficult, nor hard to cook, and while fun, I don’t think it is CCLP material.

2: I think I played this in one of the Ultimate Chip sets. It seems like a very hard level until you find the solution, at which point it seems insanely obvious. In the end, it was rather fun.

3: Ah, ice mazes. My least favourite type of maze since you can rarely see where you're going, but every set needs them, I guess. I played this in JCCLP2 or JoshL6, I'm not sure. In the end, its only advantage is looking good in the editor.

4: Hey I made that one. It feels great. I think this is a good level that proves that blobs are not always painful. I didn't see any rule against voting for your own levels, so I did.

5: I don't see what this has to do with Microcosm in CCLP2. And quite frankly what kind of a level is this? It's just simple chip collecting!

6: Oh. THAT one. I recently played it in JCCLP2, and it was actually quite fun.

7: I really don't like this level for several reasons. It seems extremely easy to cook, and the hint is rather useless by the time it can be accessed.

8: This one, I never played it before. It feels like two different levels stuck together. The first part is ordinary, but the second one is better.

9: I never really liked the original Repair the Maze a lot...this one, though is amazing.

10: Hey I made that one too. I made this for the Walls of CCLP2 contest (based on Blockslide), but I didn't send it. It took me forever to get this to work in MS with the monster order and stuff.

11: This feels like a very pointless maze.

12: "Ordinary".

13: This maze is beautiful, but extremely easy. The gravel border is especially annoying.

14: Interesting concept, but extremely easy. Again.

15: I know the time limit is short, and that's what makes this level good. It's really the only challenge.

16: I think this was in Po100T, and I really don't know how to rate this. Sure, there is the whole mirror image thing, but I don't think many players will go through the trouble of memorizing the left part of the level, and will just blindly run through the right part, or use an editor.

17: All right. It's a decent blue wall maze and all. But meh.

18: Finally a fun blue wall maze. CCLP4 will need a few of those.

19: An amazingly hard and fun dodging level. Wow.

20: An ice level with teeth. Amazing. I know I made one of these, but this one is much better.

21: This is just a simple chip collecting level. The maze isn't hard at all, and the time limit poses no problems.

22: This is a very varied level. Each room has its own puzzle, and in the end it is rather fun.

23: I think a level like this would have been better smaller.

24: This is a short puzzle, the time limit making it hard, but in the end, I did not find it to be very fun. It is too short.

25: I think this is a Jeffrey level. The ball and teeth rooms are creative, but the ending seems overly long, and is probably there only for the level to look good.

26: Well...it's an interesting concept. I guess it's good, but I just can't seem to like it a lot...

27: Various short puzzles involving gliders, very fun.

28: I made this one, and seriously? I can't believe that this made it in voting, while other levels i made, such as Clover and Teleportster, did not even get a single nomination.

29: This is a Zane level, I think. In the end, what can I say? It's very hard. Is it fun? Um...yeah. But I've tested better ones.

30: Several short but fun sokobans. The ball part is creative.

31: Ah yes, that one. I played it in LizzyB1, and it's a fun puzzle. It's a great thing the dreadful invisible wall maze has been removed here.

32: I played this in both JoshL6 and JCCLP2. Fun? Sure. CCLP material? Not really.

33: Short level. In the end nothing special, no special concepts, not really THAT fun.

34: At least this ice maze is contained...

35: Basically this is a fun level. Unfortunately, it is much larger than necessary.

36: Basically this level requires predicting where monsters and blocks will be when you are finished sliding? Well that's annoying.

37: That's a very interesting concept. I never thought something like this could be so fun.

38: I don't know what to say. It's fun. That's all.

39: FINALLY a decent ice maze. The time limit should be longer, though.

40: Most of this level is really good, but the teeth section requires precise timing and is very annoying. Such a shame, the rest was great...

41: This is a very annoying level. Firstly, is really serves no purpose. It is just chip collecting, running around, and trying not to blow up.

42: Except the title is a lie...either a short, fun and slightly challenging level.

43: I think I found this much easier than it is supposed to be...

44: I have not solved this, nor am I interested in doing so. Dodging levels can be painful sometimes, and this is one of them.

45: I love wall slapping in CC2. Unfortunately, this is a CC1 level, so you have to manually try every single wall to see which one will lead to the glider room, and die several times in the process.

46: Once again, I played this in JoshL6 and JCCLP2, and it's fun.

47: What? Another ice maze? Urggh.

48: This feels like the CC1 Abridged levels in TCCLPRejects. So it's a fun way to revisit the first few levels of CC1.

49: This level suffers from one major problem: the lack of patterns in the wiring of traps. Most of this level is pure guesswork as a consequence.

50: This level seems extremely hard until you finally discover the solution. Difficulty is highly subjective, but in the end it's a decent blob level.

On to the next pack.

EDIT: removed public votes.

[Flareon350]

I'm glad you got through this pack Chipster, but please keep all your votes to yourself.

[chipster1059]

I'm glad you got through this pack Chipster, but please keep all your votes to yourself.

Sorry Josh. I edted out the ratings now, and will not post them publicly for other packs.

[Flareon350]

It's no problem don't worry you're also allowed to vote on your own levels.

Also make of this what you will but your ratings for some of the levels seem kind of unfair to me, such as 47 just for being another ice maze. All the levels were randomly placed in each pack so there will always be some kind of inconsistencies with types of levels (there might be too many of one kind, too few of another, etc.) and I don't feel it's right to penalize some levels just for there being "too many" of that kind in a pack.

[chipster1059]

Also make of this what you will but your ratings for some of the levels seem kind of unfair to me, such as 47 just for being another ice maze. All the levels were randomly placed in each pack so there will always be some kind of inconsistencies with types of levels (there might be too many of one kind, too few of another, etc.) and I don't feel it's right to penalize some levels just for there being "too many" of that kind in a pack.

You do have a point. I will probably go back and rerate some of the levels when I have played through more packs, so my votes will be more balanced.

[jblewis]

A few thoughts on some of the levels:

#2 (Block and Key): This level reminds me a little bit, structurally speaking, of Construct-a-Maze from CCLP3. It's got a bit of the same "what do I need to do first?" challenge, but once that's out of the way, the entire thing pretty much solves itself. An elegant design complements the gameplay, making for a fairly strong candidate.

<i>#9 (Repair the Maze 2.0): </i>One of the standout qualities of the original Repair the Maze was not only the open nature, but also the scaling. The size of the maze felt reasonable and never overwhelming. This level builds on its predecessor by including different color keys and making all of them required, but the increased size and long, winding paths are one upgrade too many amidst the rest. It's a decent level - well-designed and tight, but not one of my top picks for CCLP4.

#22 (Pneumatic Diversity Vents): There's a certain "flow" in some of my favorite official levels that's hard to quantify. One of those levels is Automatic (Caution) Doors from CCLP1, which is a variety level / itemswapper built around a mechanism that opens up paths around the level without resorting to many cheap tricks that trap the player. This level almost feels like a spiritual successor to that one: it's got the same kind of linearly structured itemswapping and connects everything with a thematic bridge that just works. Instead of toggle door turnstiles, we get ice / force floor slides this time. I love how you can see other parts of the level while zipping around, and there really aren't many ways to cook the level. The secret hint is also a plus. Overall, a top candidate for CCLP4 in my book.

#23 (Toggle Path): I enjoy the idea of this level, but with all the counting needed to determine what the correct path is, I only wish the time limit were higher.

#26 (Non-Directional Override): This is a fun concept. Wouldn't mind seeing this and Non-Dimensional Layer as introductory toggle wall levels for CCLP4.

<i>#29 (Mansion): </i>I enjoy variety levels, but this one came across like a disconnected series of puzzles that didn't leave much of an impression. The tank area was definitely the highlight and helped this one stand out a bit, though.

#38 (Master Control Unit): What can I say? Amazing aesthetics and a fun theme combined with some nifty but never frustrating puzzles make for an incredible level.

#43 (Blox): This isn't a terribly difficult level, but it can unravel into a daunting challenge if you're not careful, which is really neat. I love the idea of the player ultimately setting the difficulty level (in a way) based on what actions are taken and just how much of the structure is disturbed. I'm predicting that this level will draw quite a few comparisons to Antidisruptive Caves, and honestly, I love them both - this one for the aforementioned reasons, and "Caves" for its escalating difficulty and room-by-room nature.

#47 (Snow Patrol): Aside from the voting itself, Chipster's earlier comments on ice mazes inspired me to think about what makes a great one. I believe a decent maze generally gets a player lost without making the solving process terribly frustrating. With ice mazes, you've got the added element of hurtling into walls, sometimes after taking long paths, which can be frustrating (see: I SLIDE from CC1). For comparison's sake, I'm going to put this level aside Ice Blister (#3 from this pack). Both levels are very strong aesthetically, but I feel like this one edges it out on quite a few counts: it's scaled reasonably, it doesn't have quite as many long paths or choices for the player to deal with, and it still manages to build a "lost" factor that works. This is one of my favorite ice mazes in voting, if not my favorite.

#48 (Minimalist Reminiscence): I'm not terribly fond of "throwback" levels like this that cram references to levels from CC1 without doing anything particularly new with them. Sorry.

#50 (Launch the Bacon): Definitely one of my favorite blob levels in voting so far. The aesthetic here is fresh and interesting, keeping the player alert when tracing the block's path.

Favorite level: Pneumatic Diversity Vents

Least favorite level: Wanted Dead or Alive!

[M11k4]

I want to add a comment about my level #23, Toggle Path. Chipster said it was too large and JB said the time limit is too low. Both are probably right. When building the level, I didn't intend for it to grow so large but the concept to the solution I had in mind just didn't work in a smaller graph. I imagined the level to be confusing enough that looking at the map would really be best. What I should have done next was to make a simpler level with the concept that focused on better game play instead of a difficult puzzle. Thanks for your comments


PS. I never noticed a mention not to publish one's votes =) Well, I guess now there is one.

[ajmiam]

By pure chance this seemed to be The Pack of Mazes (Ice and Otherwise) -- in the second decade alone, 6 of the 10 levels were mazes!



Some of my favorites from this set:



#2 Block and Key -- A nice, small puzzle where everything is visible from the start. Not too complicated, but it does require some good logic to figure out and feels really nice to solve. Looks good, too!



#18 Speckles of Silver -- Something about this maze stood out to me from among other blue wall mazes. I think what I really enjoy is how it has the aesthetic of being divided into so many distinct "rooms" but ends up subverting that, as you have to enter the same "room" from many different directions to get all the chips. It's a clever design choice that tickled my fancy. Also, the recessed wall rooms are extremely easy which is very considerate for a level this long.



#27 Blue Ridge Corporate Center -- Looks nice, and not stressful at all! From the name I'd guess it's meant to evoke the feeling of some industrial park with water features outside or maybe fountains in the building lobby....This could be a good early level or a good Breather Level later in CCLP4.



#31 What? -- Normally I'm against levels that are impossible to get right on your first try, but the fact that you can burn an attempt to see everything and then logic it out really helps. There isn't a huge number of decisions to make, unlike certain itemswappers from CCLP3, so it's pretty manageable to solve but still feels like you've accomplished something when it's done.



#39 Iced Tea -- Another maze! I've seen this concept a couple of times, but I think this is the best it's been executed. The first thing it gets right is that there are NO blind slides leading to water. Absolutely essential for a maze of this size. Also, it manages to be deceptive in parts without being overly confusing. This is probably helped by the dirt that marks areas you haven't visited yet. I quite enjoyed figuring this one out!


Funny coincidence, it being in the same voting pack as Iced Teeth.



Responses to others' thoughts:


It's interesting to see the difference of opinion on Repair the Maze 2.0!


Also

19 [it Only Gets Worse]: An amazingly hard and fun dodging level. Wow.

This is a neat design idea but I seem to have a rotten experience with it every time I play--I screw up the 5th or 6th room and don't feel motivated to replay the rather uninteresting first 3 rooms to get back to where I died. I'm worried the same thing will happen if it gets into CCLP4, but on the other hand I see some of the level's merits, so I kind of consider it average.

I want to add a comment about my level #23, Toggle Path. Chipster said it was too large and JB said the time limit is too low. Both are probably right. When building the level, I didn't intend for it to grow so large but the concept to the solution I had in mind just didn't work in a smaller graph. I imagined the level to be confusing enough that looking at the map would really be best. What I should have done next was to make a simpler level with the concept that focused on better game play instead of a difficult puzzle. Thanks for your comments


PS. I never noticed a mention not to publish one's votes =) Well, I guess now there is one.

I had much more fun solving this in the editor than I did trying to piece it together walking around using the game window. If you want to make solving it without the editor viable, I'd recommend multiplying the time limit by at least 4, maybe 5, or perhaps even maxing it out at 999.

[IceyLava108]

#2 (Block and Key): An interesting key puzzle with the added use of nails to create a not too quick nor not too long puzzle.

#9 (Repair the Maze 2.0): I like the evolution of the original, but it is far too big.

#19 (It Only Gets Worse): I have always liked this level for its theme of gradually extending the dodging part and its overall mechanism works fantastically.

#22 (Pneumatic Diversity Vents): The concept is fresh and the level features variety.

#23 (Toggle Path): An interesting and unique maze.

#27 (Blue Ridge Corporate Center): I like the theme of this level and the use of cloning machines and the rooms within the overall "level space" fit nicely.

#30 (Anomalous Materials): This seems like another "progress ball" level, but the use of sokobans to advance further is a nice touch and keeps this level above most sokoban-themed levels so far.

#33 (Precipitous Elevation): Something about this level sticks out to me. I've never seen anything quite like it and there's not much to say about it, but I enjoyed it a lot compared to the other levels in this pack.

#37 (Deflection): I don't necessarily want to praise my own levels, but I feel this level could serve as an interesting breather level somewhere. It could be considered as an interesting mini-challenge.

#42 (It's Easy Being Green): Looking at this level from a distance, it appears to be a twist on the idea of being forced into picking up an item at the beginning that prevents you from immediately exiting, but in this case, the green key then allows you to perform certain actions instead of simply being denied access to the exit. The puzzle is nicely sized and the level is quite fun to solve.

#43 (Blox): This level's concept is very interesting and doesn't seem to be heavily used. The puzzle isn't overwhelming, but is decently challenging.

#47 (Snow Patrol): There were one too many ice mazes in this pack, but this one stood out the most. It provided a challenge and, for its size, still retained a "lost" factor (as J.B. mentioned), whereas in most of the other ice levels I played, I wasn't really enjoying the level. The teleporters also add to the level in a good way that I can't quite describe.

#50 (Launch the Bacon): Probably the "blob level" that I'd want to see get in the final levelset.