Dragon Pack - Discussion

[Flareon350]

Nonetheless, I'd like if Flareon were just removed from the voting entirely. I provided plenty of proof that it is beginner friendly, yet is still being judged based off one single factor, which to be brutally honest, pisses me off. So I don't know what else to say about it. I'd just rather have a good level of mine not even be in the voting, than get a ton of low ratings it doesn't deserve, regardless of what CCLP1 is looking for. If you guys don't want it to be in the final product, then that's fine, but give it at least a 3. 1 and 2 ratings are just harsh on levels like this.

I'm not taking anything personally either, I would just rather have this done for myself.

[jbdude55]

If you guys don't want it to be in the final product, then that's fine, but give it at least a 3. 1 and 2 ratings are just harsh on levels like this.

Comments like this serve only to devalue the voting system. As a voter, if you feel a level is either wholly or somewhat inappropriate for CCLP1, then it should receive a 1 or a 2 respectively, because that's what those ratings are there for. There isn't (or at least there shouldn't be) a place for up-voting a level out of sympathy, pity, designer bias, etc. Remember the goal is to design the best set possible, which is only possible if everyone votes fairly and according to the same standard of "CCLP1 appropriateness", for want of a better term.

When submissions for CCLP1 (or any official set for that matter) were being considered, every designer consented to placing their level(s) under the spotlight, in a public domain. During the voting process, anyone can (and is actively encouraged) to play and evaluate the level(s) based on their appropriateness for the set. It's only natural to feel pride for our creations, given the effort we put in as designers, but one can't rightly expect to receive solely praise - given the diversity of players, designers and their opinions on what makes a good level, there must be criticism as well.

/rant

[AdrenalinDragon]

Nonetheless, I'd like if Flareon were just removed from the voting entirely. I provided plenty of proof that it is beginner friendly, yet is still being judged based off one single factor, which to be brutally honest, pisses me off. So I don't know what else to say about it. I'd just rather have a good level of mine not even be in the voting, than get a ton of low ratings it doesn't deserve, regardless of what CCLP1 is looking for. If you guys don't want it to be in the final product, then that's fine, but give it at least a 3. 1 and 2 ratings are just harsh on levels like this.

I'm not taking anything personally either, I would just rather have this done for myself.

Josh, I understand your pain. I'm also gutted my favourite level I created in voting is getting loads of low scores right now, but I supported Flareon too. The majority don't agree, but there's always another chance. CCZLP, perhaps?

[Flareon350]

Comments like this serve only to devalue the voting system. As a voter, if you feel a level is either wholly or somewhat inappropriate for CCLP1, then it should receive a 1 or a 2 respectively, because that's what those ratings are there for. There isn't (or at least there shouldn't be) a place for up-voting a level out of sympathy, pity, designer bias, etc. Remember the goal is to design the best set possible, which is only possible if everyone votes fairly and according to the same standard of "CCLP1 appropriateness", for want of a better term.

When submissions for CCLP1 (or any official set for that matter) were being considered, every designer consented to placing their level(s) under the spotlight, in a public domain. During the voting process, anyone can (and is actively encouraged) to play and evaluate the level(s) based on their appropriateness for the set. It's only natural to feel pride for our creations, given the effort we put in as designers, but one can't rightly expect to receive solely praise - given the diversity of players, designers and their opinions on what makes a good level, there must be criticism as well.

/rant

I was mainly referring to the design being a 3.

And for the record, I only submitted Flareon in the voting because I thought a lot of people would appreciate the design. But if all it's getting is 1 and 2 ratings, then that goes to show there seems to be a lack of design taste in this community. I never said I wanted nothing but praise to this level. If you hate it, then be blunt about it and say it.

Also for another record, remember Marooned in CCLP3? That level hardly has any gameplay either, and it's design is very dull. So why is that on in an official set? For the small puzzle it provides? I'd like to think anyone's argument there is invalid, though I already know someone is just gonna counteract it somehow.

Josh, I understand your pain. I'm also gutted my favourite level I created in voting is getting loads of low scores right now, but I supported Flareon too. The majority don' t agree, but there's always another chance. CCZLP, perhaps?

I'm glad you supported it Tom and I greatly appreciate it. What does CCZLP stand for anyways?

[random 8]

I think "being a good level", "being a good level for a CCLP," and "being a good level for CCLP1" can be and are mutually exclusive.

Criteria for CCLP1 and other CCLPs are mutually exclusive?

Also for another record, remember Marooned in CCLP3? That level hardly has any gameplay either, and it's design is very dull. So why is that on in an official set? For the small puzzle it provides? I'd like to think anyone's argument there is invalid, though I already know someone is just gonna counteract it somehow.

Well, i wasn't on the CCLP3 staff, so i can't vouch for them, but my opinion is that, yes, the level is small and has little gameplay, but it was not trivial, so it's suitable for CCLP3. Its late placement in the set, however, is a different matter. Plus, CCLP3 had its share of voting problems.

[jbdude55]

And for the record, I only submitted Flareon in the voting because I thought a lot of people would appreciate the design. But if all it's getting is 1 and 2 ratings, then that goes to show there seems to be a lack of design taste in this community. I never said I wanted nothing but praise to this level. If you hate it, then be blunt about it and say it.

Good level design on it's own is not the sole or even main criterion for judging a level with regard to CCLP1, as JB and many others have already stated. Even if it were, just beacuse other people have a different opinion to your own doesn't mean that you're right and they're wrong. You say you "never wanted nothing but praise", but you don't seem to be able to accept any of the criticism aimed at the level too well.

I actually rated Flareon a 3 (or maybe even a 4) if I remember correctly. I think it is a good-looking, well-designed level that would serve well as a breather later into the set, so I don't hate it by any stretch - I am merely attempting to explain to you why others have not rated it so highly, and more importantly why they have every right to do so.

[Flareon350]

I understand everything about this. It's not that I can't handle the criticism the level is getting, it's just this particular level doesn't deserve this kind of criticism. It's not about me making everyone fall in love with this level either - there's just more factors on it being in an official set than factors of it getting negative reviews. What I don't understand is how only few people see these points but no one else can.

The level can be arranged to have more gameplay. I get that it's design isn't good enough as a single requirement, but disregarding it for another single factor such as gameplay isn't right either. Including Flareon in CCLP1 could actually inspire new players to making special designs of their own. I'm pretty sure the release of CCLP1 would provide a link to some level editor a newcomer could try out, and if not their curiosity will lead them to one.

This is my final argument for Flareon. If all else fails, I will put all my hope into my Vaporeon level which is also in the voting.

[mobius]

Don't give up Flareon; I intend to vote it high and it sounds like other people have or will as well. I think these kind of levels give good variety to the set, since there are few levels like them. I personally like a lot of variety, and so I appreciate levels like this. Others, just as an example, may like only a particular kind of level or just don't tolerate things that go farther away from the 'normal' gameplay. So they voted it down.

At least you got to add levels for consideration period. I missed out on that...

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What am I missing in Wormhole?

You need to release the top/left most glider to remove the bomb so you can get access to the red key. Yet, to release the glider from it's trap, you need to press a button which is behind a red door.
The only other red key is behind an impossible to reach bomb. You can only press the red button connected to that fireball cloner twice from the recessed wall room. You need a third or something to remove the bomb behind this key.
now I'm realizing the lower red key wouldn't work anyway-you need to use it to get the blue key to open that door which the second red door is behind. Am I being really stupid? this level is boggling my mind.
???

other than this I like this level

[jblewis]

What am I missing in Wormhole?

You need to release the top/left most glider to remove the bomb so you can get access to the red key. Yet, to release the glider from it's trap, you need to press a button which is behind a red door.

The only other red key is behind an impossible to reach bomb. You can only press the red button connected to that fireball cloner twice from the recessed wall room. You need a third or something to remove the bomb behind this key.

One of these sentences is false.

[mobius]

oh wow, I think I see it

thanks for not spoiling it all the way

edit: wait, no I don't see it....