Zygote Pack - Discussion

[Flareon350]

My comments and such for the some of the levels in this pack:

4. Buried

Anything I have to say about this level has already been said in Andrew's post above. This is hands down one of my top 10 levels I really want to see in the final set and not just because it's a throwback level. It's just a blast to play every single time.

15. Spatial Ruins

Being one of my levels, I won't praise or give self-promotion but I would really love to see this in the final set. Even if it does have more random force floors what people may prefer.

18. In the Pool

This was one of the levels I was sad to not see in CCLP1 and I hope it will redeem itself for this set. It might be an easy, non-challenging level to us veterans, especially since CCLP4 is aiming for a higher difficulty curve than CCLP1, but I can really see this as an early level in CCLP4.

28. Pacific Ocean

What even is this level and why is this in voting.

32. Flock of Block

I underestimated this level before, it's a very well designed sokoban themed level that kept the level fresh and fun and I never once felt bored replaying this one. Can easily see this somewhere in the middle of CCLP4, if it makes it in.

33. Quorum

I enjoyed playing this level and it was a lot of fun. However, it is essentially the same thing throughout the entire level and there's stronger key themed levels in voting. Not exactly one I want to see in the final set, though as a early time crunch level, this could do quite nicely.

47. Scenes From an Italian Restaurant

A fun little block pushing level that I enjoyed. Again, not a strong pick for me but knowing I enjoyed it should be nice to know.

Favorite level: Buried (4)

Least favorite level: Pacific Ocean (28)

[pieguy]

<strong>#14 (Lounge Act):</strong> I made it as far as 25,12 without "cheating". At this point the only thing preventing me from solving the level normally was the water at 9,24, but I was otherwise stuck, save exploiting bugs. So I "cheated" and used slide delay to ram a block at 24,12, then solved the rest of the level without cheating. The rest of the level was easier than it should have been because I had a spare yellow key. Finished with 5 popups unused (8,17, 8,18, 2,4, 19,18, and 11,24), but had to relinquish the force boots. Busted or not, it was still a challenging and satisfying level.

[Bowman]

In #26 Diamond, I solved it using 3 keys and had only 2 moves to spare when it came to getting ahead of the fireball. Is that optimal? If so, that's a pretty hefty demand in the optimizing department that must be met just to solve the level at all! Especially so when you consider the many different key counts and door combinations a player might try before finding the correct route.

I solved this only using 2 keys, so there must be more than one "correct" route.

[Ihavenoname248]

Buried (#4): I love the concept of taking an existing level and mangling it in some way to create something new. That being said... I don't think this level does a very good job of it. Before realizing that it's a copy of Lesson 1, the solution takes a lot of guesswork for finding keys and chips under blocks. After realizing, there's a lot of looping around the outside finding the way in. As I tend to say: A+ concept, C- execution. I'd much rather see Ravaged (Longbow #1) as a rehashed level.

Blue Island (#9): For the size of the level, this is a pretty devious puzzle! I especially like how the difference in trap behaviors in rulesets is highlighted without being unequal.

Wisdom and Madness and Folly (#17): Oh boy, where do I begin here...this is one of those levels that crams too much cleverness in for its own good, and combines it with some semi-precise timing. The cloning/trap room is interesting enough, but there's a lot of waiting around. The tank room is much more precise than it needs to be, and it's especially annoying in Lynx trying to get the exact right tick multiple times to proceed. Then there's an unnecessary dodging room, a neat pink ball corridor that plays cheap because there's no return if you didn't toggle the walls between trips. (technically observable, but the balls bouncing on toggle buttons and lack of visibility means it's a very unfair trap) This is followed up by a small toggle maze with bugs and paramecia circling on toggle buttons (this is cool!) and using a block to guide tanks to their doom. Last is... another cloning room that's really all about waiting. It was easy to figure out, but one wrong step while figuring it out and do everything over again! Then the level ends by disrupting the monsters in the middle to make the walls toggle and reach an exit. Yay.

So overall there's some neat ideas weighed down by an excessively rigid implementation. There's no real reason why each of the 6 distinct challenges had to be tackled in the order they were: the level would be a lot stronger if you could choose your order and started in the center, but even then I don't think I'd enjoy playing it.

Push Blocks and Do Things (#19): Well, that's a boring title. There's also an inequality with the blue key (swap blue for red or yellow and it's fixed. Anyway, this is actually a pretty neat 'find the order' level with a lovely aesthetic. I definitely wouldn't mind seeing this (with a new title) early in CCLP4.

The Boot Problem (#23): Cool idea to take the "you have a boot you don't want" design trope and repeat it through the level, but ultimately it falls victim to repeating the same challenge (4x4 rooms with a glider) over and over.

Diamond (#26): I don't think you should have to optimize a level to quite this extent to be able to solve it. I'm fine with needing a decently optimized route (see Dwarven Keep's chip vault) but this takes it too far, needing not only the route but near perfect execution.

A Puzzle (#30): A tedious level. Kind of like Yet Another Puzzle and Yet Another Yet Another Puzzle, except without most of the puzzle. (of these, I think YAP hit the sweet spot and YAYAP crammed in too many block loops: though the actual puzzle in the level was excellently done)

Randomness (#35): This pack has too many "why is this in voting" levels. This, Pacific Ocean, Shuffle, and Blobhunt.

Exclusive Or (#36): I love this level. I solved it both ways for the full experience and this is easily one of my top picks for the final set. My only real complaint is that the ice slide at the end isn't entirely an ice slide, but that's such a minor nitpick.

Minigame (#46): The mechanism breaks when you push multiple buttons in quick succession and I'm not a fan of the idea to begin with, at least not in this context. Mobius made a really good puzzle in CC2 with 6 buttons and walls and I think that the concept works better there: or with a line of traps that get cloned into and then released...

Favorite level: Exclusive Or (#36)

Least favorite: Wisdom and Madness and Folly (#17)

[Flareon350]

Buried (#4): I love the concept of taking an existing level and mangling it in some way to create something new. That being said... I don't think this level does a very good job of it. Before realizing that it's a copy of Lesson 1, the solution takes a lot of guesswork for finding keys and chips under blocks. After realizing, there's a lot of looping around the outside finding the way in.

There's a difference between guessing where things are and using logic to find where things are and I have to say this level I think uses logic over guesswork, especially if one remembers the layout of Lesson 1, which I believe is the intention of the level to start with. Even so, the layout of Lesson 1 isn't that hard to remember to begin with so one should logically figure out/find out where the chips/keys are - not all the keys are necessary to solve either!

Looping around finding the way in was honestly the funnest part of the whole level for me because again, that's the key part of the concept.

Least favorite: Wisdom and Madness and Folly (#17)

+1

[Ihavenoname248]

Blobhunt is horribly, irredeemably busted.

This took me maybe 10 minutes to get.

[RB3ProKeys]

Thoughts on the levels:

1 - Nothing special.

2 - Fun little ice maze, but nothing else about the level makes it stand out.

3 - I love levels composed of just mini-challenges, and the fact that it has no random elements makes this a strong candidate for CCLP4.

4 - I also love levels reminiscent of the original set, and this one reprises it in a way that is fun and new.

5 - This level has a familiar feel that is attractive.

6 - Nothing special.

7 - Nothing special.

8 - Not the TOTALLY UNFAIR partial post level we deserve, but the TOTALLY UNFAIR partial post level we need.

9 - Good force floor action packed in such a tight space.

10 - Great sokoban puzzles with a forgettable hidden wall maze/chip collecting island.

11 - Fun and beautiful sokoban with the classic lock wheel.

12 - Great recessed wall level with fun puzzles and good replay value.

13 - Interesting mix of key puzzles with some elements of a maze theme.

14 - I love this level and would love to see it in the final set, but I think it would then lose its value as a difficult custom level and the award for it would no longer be necessary.

15 - Flows nicely, but feels thrown together at the same time.

16 - Not the most challenging walker level, but it has a great design and a variety of challenges, which makes this a stronger candidate for CCLP4.

17 - Good design with interesting puzzles.

18 - Nothing special.

19 - Nothing special.

20 - Puzzling but fun to solve recessed wall puzzle.

21 - The better version of that other level that tried and failed to be a STEAM themed maze.

22 - Interesting layout, but it's mostly chip collecting with the occasional melee thrown in.

23 - Maybe a good introduction to the thief.

24 - A good candidate for a MONSTER LAB themed level in the final set.

25 - Nothing special.

26 - Fun time crunch kind of level.

27 - Good HUNT themed level and a nice intro to the teeth.

28 - Nothing special.

29 - Interesting pathfinder level with a great theme.

30 - Fun, if tedious, long sokoban, but beautiful design.

31 - Great compilation of simple challenges that would make a nice breather level.

32 - Not too difficult, but fun enough to keep you interested and replaying.

33 - Nothing special.

34 - Nothing special.

35 - Good intro to random elements.

36 - One of the best levels with this concept.

37 - I've enjoyed playing this every time I played it. I wouldn't mind seeing it in the final set.

38 - Fun little ice dodging challenges.

39 - Short yet fun little fire puzzle with a compact feel likely because of the long corridors.

40 - Not my favorite of the many toggle wall mazes.

41 - Great time crunch sokoban.

42 - Good concept, but this level just doesn't make it for me.

43 - Amazing blue wall maze themed level with some fun puzzles mixed in.

44 - Nothing special at first, but then it starts to get interesting.

45 - Great concept for a maze level.

46 - Fun little mini level that I could see as a breather level.

47 - A level I designed for a create competition. I could see it as one of the early levels, maybe with a name change and a new hint (though not absolutely necessary).

48 - One of the more interesting chip collecting levels with a great design.

49 - Nothing special.

50 - Nothing special.