Should a level be solvable on the first attempt?

[M11k4]

For maximum enjoyment, should a level be theoretically solvable by someone playing it for the first time if they can play well enough?

[AdrenalinDragon]

Sometimes levels are not designed to be done on the first try. The prime example being Lead Us Not into Temptation at a guess, because in my eyes it relies on the concept of trial and error. Hard levels which are theoretically possibly on a first try, like Avalanche are good but players are pressured by the time limit of 999 seconds, so it's tough to do first try without any guidance. It doesn't have to be a requirement to be a standout level though, just it might be considered easier when there's no guesswork to do.

I don't mind either way, as long as the level is fun and doesn't outstay its welcome for too long like Old Frog. That level is a bad one for that reason for me.

[random 8]

Doesn't make much sense for luck-based levels...

[Hornlitz]

I honestly don't care, so long as it's solvable within reason. I mean, some levels are just over the top (*COUGHSuspendedAnimationCOUGH*), but for the most part, as long as the level is solvable and actually possible to figure out without the mind of a super computer, then I'm okay with it.

[random 8]

Also,

*kindergarten

*Preferably

*depending

[M11k4]

Also,

*kindergarten

*Preferably

*depending

lol

It seems I was in still in chat mode when posting. Actually, this might be my cue to whip out the "my first language isn't English"-card but I feel like I've been part of the community for too long to do that. I mean seriously everyone has been super nice for the last few years and this is the first time anyone says anything about my spelling, which is really rare generally online. But I guess it had to happen at some point and I did make three eye-catching mistakes in the same post

[Flareon350]

Really just depends on the concept the level is giving to players.

If it's meant to be difficult, then no I don't really expect to solve it first try.

[random 8]

This is the first time anyone says anything about my spelling, which is really rare generally online.

"Online" is a big place. I've seen some communities that do this at almost every opportunity.

But I guess it had to happen at some point and I did make three eye-catching mistakes in the same post

I only caught them on my second or third read. lol

[IceyLava108]

Sometimes, yes. Sometimes, no. Lesson levels, for instance, are meant for practice and learning about the actual game. Others, like the triple digits in CCLP3, are meant for more skilled players.

[ajmiam]

I went with "Preferably yes", assuming that "solvable on the first try" means "solvable on the first try without guesswork". I definitely prefer both making and playing levels where you are given the chance to figure out what you have to do before you have to do it. Being able to make a level that is still challenging with that quality is definitely a tough but worthy design task!

I always find it kind of off-putting when a level forces you to make a bunch of irreversible decisions (drowning monsters, stepping on recessed walls/force floors, using blocks, unlocking doors, pressing red buttons when you don't know what they control) practically right from the get-go, and then you just have to go as far as you can and figure out which ones of the dozen or so decisions you made cooked the level *coughcoughOld *. It's especially bad if the irreversible, unknowable decisions continue all the way through, and then you risk undoing 500 seconds of work unless you peek in the editor.

Still, there are some levels that require guesswork that I don't mind, namely those with short, strict time limits. In these levels (e.g. Shattered) guesswork is inherently required because you just don't have enough time to explore ahead before making decisions! But because the level length is small, there is little cost for wrong choices, and it's generally fun to figure out the most efficient ways to complete these levels!

On the other hand, because of Chip's limited eyesight, it's (probably) not possible to make puzzles as intricate as Old and the rest of CCLP3's endgame without necessitating some guesswork...but I still tend to like pure, fair logical levels better. They just seem to be more satisfying to solve.

I suppose an interesting side-question would be, if you find an intricate Old -style puzzle level that involves guesswork, how long do you try it before peeking in the editor (or do you never peek at all)?