Ravioli Pack - Discussion

[Ihavenoname248]

Amorphous (#2): When I designed this, I tried to do something interesting and fair with ball dodging, while also being difficult. On playing it again, I feel like I succeeded on that approach but in doing so may have extended the level a little farther than it needed to go- the entire bottom feels unnecessary. Still, I think it's one of the better ball levels in voting, though the difficulty and length could definitely be off-putting to some.

Til Tuesday (#6): Dave why did you put the really long corridors in this level they really aren't necessary

Flooded Forest (#7): I've said my piece on blue walls and deadly obstacles before and it's my least favorite combination- second only to hidden/invisible walls and deadly obstacles, as at least blue walls are up front about maybe being a wall. That being said- this level is designed quite well and if any blue wall/deadly obstacle level had to be in the final set, I'd go with this one, as the green locks and force floors make where you can and can't go a little more clear.

Gone to Lunch (#12): This is a really fun concept. The right side of the level is really frustrating to clear out, though, and because of that I can't really rate this too highly in "fun".

Chipweave (#18): I could understand why this was in CCLP1 voting, as it's a simple maze that is somewhat easy to get lost in. But really, it ends up playing like an iced version of Patchwork without the diagonal lines and balls blocking passages that made Patchwork so enjoyable to play. This level is just... empty.

Bind Mender (#28): A lot has been said about this level. I really don't have anything else to add other than that it can be busted in MS via slide delay in a way that adds to the overall level. Easily a top 10 pick for the final set.

Against the Floe (#29) and Brickwalled (#33): Another couple levels where the comments to Chipweave apply. There's not really anything interesting here- sorry Andrew!

How I Learned to Stop Bombing and Love the Worry (#35): This level is one of my absolute favorites, right here. Too often bomb themed levels tend towards monotony or careful arrangement of blocks and monsters to clear out all/specific bombs. Too often block themed levels tend towards tedium or sokobans. This level completely ignores both trends and sets a field of blocks, bombs, and a few chips, and challenges the player to find a path through. Some of the chips are quite devious to try to reach, and the outer edge always has more points of entry available.

Blocked Passage (#39): Yeah this is what I meant with block levels tending towards tedium. To make matters worse, slide delay can result in some late cooks. Not really very fun to play and honestly stressful in MS.

Gliders and Gliders (#49): An impressively varied melee level based entirely around... gliders! Unfortunately, the block section is easily screwed and is a puzzle element in a dodging environment, and I don't the level needed an abrupt change of mental process. Few levels can pull that off well, and I think Think Tank is one of the few that did- and even then, only due to theming. (both the dodging and puzzle parts revolve around tanks) Here...you have dodging gliders while picking up chips, dodging gliders, picking up chips while dodging gliders, and pushing blocks to specific locations with gliders in the area. That last part just utterly destroyed the flow for me: if there wasn't a specific solution in mind (fill 25, 26 or cook) I wouldn't mind. Just... one minor detail seriously hurt the level in my eyes.

Favorite level: How I Learned to Stop Bombing and Love the Worry (#35) (with Bind Mender as a close second)

Least favorite: Carnival (#27)

[Flareon350]

Gone to Lunch (#12): This is a really fun concept. The right side of the level is really frustrating to clear out, though, and because of that I can't really rate this too highly in "fun".

I've mentioned this before and I'll mention it again - the right side of the level can be cleared pretty easily since the teeth can be blocked in the lower left. Even so, I wasn't gonna make every single chip "easy" to get and there's no order to what chips need to be collected first. All that being said, the level having a little challenge to it shouldn't make it any less fun.

[geodave]

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Til Tuesday (#6): Dave why did you put the really long corridors in this level they really aren't necessary

I had a reason... really I did. Can't remember it.

As I recall this was the final level I submitted and I was in a hurry.

[Flareon350]

I've went through this pack a while back and just never bothered to leave comments on it because other people have done so on so many levels. But this is probably one of the best arrangements of levels in a voting pack with some outstanding levels so why not get some of my feedback, this time on none of my levels! I'll let other people do that.

1. Tank You Very Much

This was a pretty fun level to play that centers around tanks and has a pretty well designed aesthetic of how each room connects with each other. The tank/block room is unfortunately my least favorite part of the level but it's honestly not terrible. The first and second rooms are my favorites (kudos to whoever came up with that first room concept ). This might just be my favorite tank themed level in the voting so far.

8. Buried Alive

I'm torn between J.B.'s feedback of this level and Andrew's as I understand both their reasons to like it and dislike it. The sudden difficulty spike was definitely a let down while playing myself but the general feel of this level is pretty epic. So because of this, I am pretty much neutral with this level with my rating, at least for the time being. However, I will say that this level does pull off the concept quite well so good job to the designer for that.

17. Eat Dirt

I enjoyed the two floor tile theme this level has much like I did with the levels in CC1 that used the same aesthetic. Not only this but it strongly reminds me of Deception from the original game, with getting teeth out of the way in order for you to obtain the yellow key. If this was intended, well done. The level itself is pretty fun too!

22. Have Block, Will Travel

I've played a few levels with this concept before of having one block and guiding it around the level to help you out. Sadly, this is one of my least favorites of its kind and was not all that fun for me. Some rooms are well crafted though.

28. Bind Mender

So I might have the unpopular opinion with this level unfortunately. I honestly don't see what majority of other people do with this one. I didn't particularly enjoy playing it and it's really not all that special in my opinion. While it is well designed, that alone wasn't enough for me to like it. Sorry!

34. Bam Thwok

I hadn't solved this prior to the release of this pack, but doing so here was very fun - and very satisfying. I love how you revisit the same areas about two or three times with different objectives on each go-around, which is neatly implemented. This just overtook Double Time Warehouse as my favorite "push blocks onto buttons while stepping on them at the same time" level.

Quoted for accuracy. Word for word, all of this is true for me as well.

40. Measels

Lol this level is so silly but I like it. I want this in CCLP4 just because of its silliness.

45. Meteor Shower

I think 50 keys was a bit much but at least this is all the level is. Though I personally think levels of this kind have overstayed their welcome over the years and this one is no exception.

47. Excuse Me

Hey another tank themed level! I love this concept a lot it's really clever but that SE room can be pretty nasty if you do something wrong and it seems to be easy to mess that section up. That is my only complaint with this level, otherwise it's a lot of fun. A close runner up to being my favorite tank themed level in the voting.

Favorite level: Gone to Lunch (12) / Overlap (26)

Least favorite level: Blocked Passage (39)

Just because I don't leave comments on my own levels doesn't stop me from having them as my favorites. but just for the sake of variety, Overlap was a blast to play.

[RB3ProKeys]

Thoughts on the levels:


1 - Fantastic and challenging tank puzzles that I would like to see in the final set.


2 - Nothing special.


3 - Nothing special.


4 - Great concept and good execution.


5 - Lots of mini challenges and it's fun to see why you can't reach the red herring exits.


6 - Great design and fun puzzles, though the blue wall maze feels a little massive.


7 - Interesting maze that is fun to explore and great to look at.


8 - Amazing block puzzle that I would love to see in the final set.


9 - Fun blockslide level with a great feel to it.


10 - I wondered why this level would be at all challenging, and then I hit the toggle button and I knew. That was the nice surprise this level needed.


11 - Nothing special.


12 - Great teeth melee level and it's made more challenging since the teeth can meander through the walls.


13 - Another great paramecia level with some fabulous sokobans. A good candidate for the final set.


14 - I like that you complete these little puzzles and then exit through the outer boundary.


15 - A level I designed. I love how it's so simple to execute, so fun to play, small yet beautiful in design, and fun to play again.


16 - Flareon's beautiful submission for the same competition that beat level 15. I love the design and the puzzles that accompany it. I'd love to see it in the final set.


17 - LOBSTER TRAP's slower, less fun successor.


18 - I like boosting around in this level, which makes it one of the better sized levels.


19 - It's nice to blow up the teeth when it seems like you're stuck and it's cool that teeth trapped in gravel are used as deadly walls.


20 - The concept is nice, but the level is just not really that fun to play.


21 - The ice slide at the beginning is good, but the rest of the level is nothing special.


22 - Well designed sokoban that is fun to play.


23 - Good fire themed breather level.


24 - Interesting button manipulation level, though the LADDER section is nothing new.


25 - Interesting and beautiful design, but not that fun to play.


26 - I looked at this and thought it was going to be fun to play, but I was disappointed when I started playing and realized I was wrong.


27 - Kind of a weird level.


28 - Good introduction to nails.


29 - Nothing special.


30 - Beautifully designed. I love how the first part is clearing a path for the teeth, the next is leading the teeth, then the last part is navigating the dirt and water checkerboard to the exit.


31 - Would be better if you had to be more careful with your boot consumption.

32 - I like that you get to choose your path, and it does have some nice challenges mixed in.

33 - The open feel to this maze is nice and it's great that you only have two walls to check.

34 - These seemingly simple block puzzles are made more exciting by the possibility of cooking the level at the slightest misstep.

35 - Feels good to blow up all those bombs.

36 - So simple, yet so elegant.

37 - This level is very fun and well designed. Lot of creative concepts here.

38 - I guess it's a good lesson level for introductory players, but it's nothing special to someone who's played the game longer.

39 - This level may be tedious, but I like that it's not as tedious as you'd expect since you can reach some chips from the force floors.

40 - It feels like this level shouldn't be fun, but it somehow is.

41 - The top is a little extra and the left side is a little scary with the random force floors.

42 - Great concept executed well.

43 - Good breather level.

44 - Such a good concept ruined because the level is way too easy.

45 - I can forgive this level having so many keys because it wouldn't be at all fun if you didn't have to go to such great lengths to grab all those keys.

46 - Nothing really special about this level other than the fact that it combines hidden walls, water, and ice which are generally three components of the better mazes.

47 - Haven't really seen this concept applied so well on such a large scale.

48 - Maybe a good introduction to buttons.

49 - The only really difficult part of the level is the SE section, but the level as a whole is fun.

50 - One of the more interesting recessed wall mazes I've seen.

[M11k4]

Is this the best pack?

I'm not going to comment on all the levels, but here are some observations of a few of them.

#1 (Tank You Very Much
) : Like others have said, Chip starting in the block room would work better as that's the room that's easiest to mess up. Some cool ideas in here though, including that room.

#2 (Amorphous
) : A decent pink ball level, though your own comments got me thinking of the structure. Maybe it it could have been two separate sections one could practice, instead of one long one?

#6 (Til Tuesday
) : A nice mix of different things. I needed more time though, as I like to push every real blue wall. I liked the symmetry of the cloning rooms and can't find anything negative to say about the rest of the level either. Well put together!

#8 (Buried Alive
) : I guess I'll comment on this one too, as everyone else seems to have. I like it.

#10 (Eating Rocks
) : Is my new favorite thing Teeth levels? Because I love this one and some others too in the voting. Now that I look at the map, I wonder what I gained from starting the level with all the doors closed and Chip so far from the toggle button? A good structure for the concept otherwise.

#12 (Gone to Lunch
) : Yep, I like this too. Are the sides unequal? I didn't notice, but there were a couple chips that were tricky, and they I wouldn't mind if they weren't on the same side. What about having an extra red lock or two somewhere just in case I mess up? Of course, there is merit to keeping things simple, so no complaints.

#13 (Sandstorms in the Underworld
) : A very nice design. I did kill myself trying to push (21,8) upwards but it was a cloner, not a block. Also my pet peeve in level design is mechanisms that are unnecessarily complex and I find that here with the cloner at (13,24). It could just be a block that is pushed forward, or even better, why have anything at all and just let the thing keep going? I guess the noise is annoying? But now I feel bad for just pointing out these minor things in anotherwise great execution of a neat concept. I like the starting room; it reminds the player how paramecia move. I like the fire boots as a temptation to be picked up too early. I like the block pushing and just one paramecium in that room. I like the ff slide. I like the distance between the circling paramecium and the flippers, allowing me to get them without waiting. I like the re-use of the block once you get the skates. I like the pop-up wall bit. I like the room with all the red keys and knowing I'm not supposed to pick them up. I like the tension in the next room, where I really have to be sure where the blocks are needed and how to get them there. I like the placement of the Exit. In short, I like this level.

#16 (Western Standards of Living
) : I've seen several levels that try to play around with different colors and mixtures of tiles to look unique, and this one definitely succeeds. In Lynx I was able to free a Walker but it didn't help me bust the level.

#17 (Eat Dirt
) : Eleven Teeth? Maybe eight would be better. I like the concept.

#18 (Chipweave
) : I admit, I got lost on my first attempt and ran out of time. A good maze.

#19 (Secret Society of the Teeth
) : This level gave me an idea. Thanks!

#20 (Turning Tables
) : From the comments from other people I see that this was not a very liked level. The main issue seems to be that the Teeth can trap Chip too easily. But that's the point of the level! It's a study of how to get those chips even with that thing chasing you. If there was more room, this would be way too simple. Having said that, it was not a fun level in the end even if the concept worked. (But that's how design works, in my opinion; you get an idea, flesh it out, and then you see what you ended up with.)

#27 (Carnival
) : Well there's an hour of my life I won't get back I was first a bit silly and used the bug on the last bomb guarding the green key without realizing I can use a block for that one too. I guess it's intended that the block in the SW can be pushed onto the ff slide and not use the recessed walls? Overall, some very nice and tricky puzzles in this one, and I would say that they could be split into their own levels, but I do see the connecting theme of "using blocks in a moving environment" kind of, but still would prefer if the rooms could each be practiced separately instead of always having to first get the green key before getting to the lower half of the level. Maybe I need to play TS1 in MS now too so I can report more levels as solved on pieguy's site.

#29 (Against the Floe
) : I always enjoyed playing this. The timing is not too strict and yet it's not trivial either.

#33 (Brickwalled
) : I prefer the version with the bugs and no keys. The spacing is nice and the name of the level finally connected with me to the wall pattern.

#34 (Bam Thwok
) : Curious how some levels just jump out as certainly being from some designer. It is possible I have tried this level before and my sub-conscience remembered it, but otherwise I just knew this had to be from Tyler. I feel some people give up on levels like this once they encounter a spot they can't crack right then and there, but they end up missing the best parts, that usually come later when the concept is taken just a little bit further than it's introduction. This is a great level, but voters will decide if a CCLP is the right place for it.

#35 (How I Learned...
) : Yeah, this was fun and the time limit was good, but can I please see the optimal route?

#37 (Traps of Creativity
) : When you name your level this, I would hope to encounter some creative traps. Did I? Well, I did encounter some traps and even some creative stuff, but the two really didn't overlap I thought. Still a fine level with some highlights. I liked that the blue key was so close to the chip and yet you had to carry it pretty far to use it. In Lynx it was possible to clone 23 gliders in the NW to save a yellow key, though this was not faster than just using both. The SW monster area was clever and of course the toggle leading to the exit was too.

#41 (Center of Gravity
) : I had an interesting occurrence with the bugs in the NE section. The second bug bounced back from the pink ball. Apparently, the bugs interacted with each other and the parity changed. I was playing in Lynx, but this should be possibly in MS as well. Having one patch of ice might be a fix. Also, not sure if this has been mentioned, but MS it's possible to solve the level in twenty seconds by using the Flame Boy trick.

#42 (Platforming?!
) : This concept hasn't been done too many times, and I enjoyed this execution of it as much as that other one I remember.

#44 (Rainbow
) : I like seeing concepts like this, but in the end this one didn't create a great puzzle. Hopefully someone can be inspired from this and do just that some day. I see that some effort went into arranging the room with the keys, but the game play ends up being rather simple. Maybe in CC2 the player could be forced to travel through the room several times, each time carving a new route.

#47 (Excuse Me
) : This was nice. All the sections were different, but I was left wondering if there was something missing from the level. Perhaps the final room was a bit simple and there could have been a way to interact with the mechanism to give it one more twist. My favorite room was the one with the Teeth.

#48 (Trap Runner
) : I like these sections and will probably blatantly copy one or two of them for a level of my own some day. Not sure if it's a concept that carries a full level, but not a bad effort at all.

#49 (Gliders and Gliders
) : I always liked this one. Granted, the block section is a bit tricky in comparison to the other parts, but I can live with it. Bonus points for allowing me to go either way at the start and both ways being interesting.

#50 (Concrete Jungle
) : A successful maze of it's type. I always enjoy recessed wall stuff like this

I feel like I could comment on some more levels, but then I wouldn't feel good leaving out the rest, so I'll leave it here at half way.