NeverStopGaming Discussion

[lookatthis]

Hey everyone,

I wanted to say that I posted a new set on CCZone and pieguy's site titled NeverStopGaming.

You are more than welcomed to post anything related to the levelset here.

[Flareon350]

It looks like a great set! I can't wait to play it

One thing I should point out is that Breen District is also in J.B.'s set. Not that this is really an issue, but I've never seen a collab level between two people be in both said people's sets.

And a question - will you be submitting this set or some levels of it for CCLP4?

[jblewis]

Eddy, this set looks amazing so far! One question - is Imperial Elevator meant to have extra chips?

[lookatthis]

I plan to make a CCLP4 consideration set in the days to come. The set will be a combination of both my sets and possibly some of the rejected levels. That being said, you can go ahead and pull out the other set that is currently under consideration.

As for a specific level in the set, Imperial Elevator intended to have extra chips.

[M11k4]

I very much enjoyed this set! It was the right length and not quite as challenging as your previous work. My main gripe with it is that you released it at a time when I could have been doing other things but I was tempted to play this instead! Here a few comments on select levels:

13 - Incisive Paragon

This was just perfect! I like the size and I like the puzzle and the symmetry makes it look nice. You could make ten of these with variations and I would play them all! (Then we'd vote the best one into CCLP4!)

19 - Golgi Apparatus

Novel concept, great execution. I've been wondering if there was some interesting way to play around with toggle buttons and toggle walls that I haven't seen, and this was just that. One of my favorites in the set.

21 - Breen District

I think it's fine to have collab levels in more than one set. Having said that, this was my least favorite level in the set.

29 - Orbital Station

You found some interesting monster interactions and added a story to it. Cool!

36 - Zero Potential

I want to see a sequel! This is fine as a small challenge and introduction to the concept, but now I want to see the next step with a tougher challenge.

40 - Tooth Skin

Is this possible with the teeth doing everything on one go-around? I just cloned the blocks myself.

43 - Seven Layer Salad

I played this when it was part of the create comp two years ago, and it was better than I remembered! Carrying the block through the level worked well. I was still a bit confused with the block cloners towards the end as they didn't do much, but I managed to figure it out again.

47 - Nova Prospect

Nice puzzles with a connecting theme. I can also tell you put effort into the visual impact of this level. This is also probably an interesting level to optimize.

49 - Forgive Is Our Trespassing

A bit hard, but maybe ok for almost last level.

50 - Tank You Very Much

A gem. Every room works nicely and I would love to see this in CCLP4. A great way to finish off your set!

What are your own favorites from the set? Which levels were a pain to build? What's your next set and have you planned any sequels?

[jblewis]

A few thoughts now that I've finished the set:

I really enjoyed this. There's a steady difficulty increase, but it's nothing terribly harsh, and the levels can be solved fairly quickly and don't feel tedious at all. One of the qualms I had with 60 Minutes was that there were concepts that felt rather obviously lifted from other levels - some of which looked almost literally copied and pasted into the map. This set had much more originality and felt fresh. Even when it borrowed a few ideas from other levels and sets, I appreciated that there was at least a different spin involved, at least for the most part. Some improved on the idea: I enjoyed Forgive Us Our Trespassing, which felt inspired by Hip to Be Square, though without all the tedious walking around. So far, my favorites are Melody Rain, Cloud City, Flea Market, Golgi Apparatus, Torn Landscape, Nova Prospect, and of course, Tank You Very Much.

47 - Nova Prospect

Nice puzzles with a connecting theme. I can also tell you put effort into the visual impact of this level. This is also probably an interesting level to optimize.

@Miika: Oh, it very much is! Hope you submit a few scores of your own on this set.

[Flareon350]

36 - Zero Potential


I want to see a sequel! This is fine as a small challenge and introduction to the concept, but now I want to see the next step with a tougher challenge.

I made a level called "Frozen Over" which I believe is what this level is based off of. My level, however, is a tougher challenge as it spreads the whole 32x32 grid. So technically speaking that can be considered as a sequel.

[mmoraleta]

How on do you solve Serenity Now (34)? I need some help please. BTW, great levelset so far, the last level was a great modification of Key Color (149) in CCLP2.

Never mind Solved it.

[mmoraleta]

Review for the first half,

1- Great Intro level mixed with various challenges

2- Reminds me of Mud Pit from Josh.

3- At first I didn't know if there was a specific order but I liked the key and chip swapping

4- Extra chips in the end and a little bit tricky too, since it is possible to cook the level by trapping the exit

5- This level was fun, I like this kind of concept and reminds me a little bit of Elemental Park (128) from CCLP1

6- I like this level too, in my opinion it is a better version of lesson 6 from the original game

7- It has that great How To Get Around In Venice aesthetic.

8- Great level, some of the force floor kind of reminds me of Toxic Ride from JoshL5

9- A little ordinary

10- Fun small blob level, like the extra recessed walls for protection more than enough

11- Fun

12- Nice creative "SAMPLER" level

13- Nice little Puzzle

14- This level reminds me of And The Walls Kept Tumbling Down form the Other 100 tiles

15- Fun

16- Good squared cell level

17- Ordinary

18- I like this level, filled with various challenges with gliders, particularly the chips by the upper right and lower left corners of the level.

19- A little nerve-wracking to get the fireballs into the bomb. If one went into the the "toggle rooms" and you were in it, that's scary

20- Reminds me of Carousel (112) in CCLP1, like the twist at the end with the 2 blocks.

21- What is Breen District? Isn't it supposed to be Green District?

22- Great challenge that requires players to look further into the level. Nice "Mudpit" concept

23- Ordinary in my opinion

24- LOL at the name not sure if it was intentional, with a great Amsterdam concept put into it.

25- Reminds me of Phoenix in JoshL5.

Great level set so far, looking forward towards level 35-50. Right now I am stuck on Serenity Now (34). I'll post my reviews for the second half of the level set when I finish level 50.

[Ihavenoname248]

I recently finished (well, almost finished) optimizing the set in MS- there's some pretty fun stuff in here both casually and to optimize, but there were also a couple levels I didn't like for some reason or another.

(levels 1-10)

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Melody Rain: Personally, I wouldn't put this as a level 1, but I did enjoy both playing and optimizing. Sockets everywhere is a somewhat underused aesthetic, I feel, and this level directly inspired me to use more sockets in designs. The best route wasn't too hard to find or execute, though I could see the longer ice stretches giving some trouble- personally, I found those parts most interesting and would not have minded an extra ice patch.
Grendlekeep: It's okay I guess. There's nothing terribly interesting here, aesthetically, casually or speedily.
Target Lock: Fun itemswapping level- especially the extra keys. They cut back on backtracking and add some very nice optimization depth, and the double force floors allow some fun move-saving overrides. This is one I definitely underestimated at first glance.
Imperial Elevator: I like chips under blocks levels, but this one falls flat to me. I appreciate that it's possible to make mistakes and still solve the level, but I think that actually detracts from the overall experience here. Perhaps if there were more rooms that wouldn't be the case, but as it stands this gets a resounding "meh" from me overall.
Optical Delusion: Amazing title. The level concept here is clearly from pieguy's "Triple Maze", and it's definitely an accessible version of said level. Not really any gameplay depth here, but it's an enjoyable experience.
In the Moonlight: I really like the touch of 'leaving' the blue wall maze. Another fun level to play.
Pixelated Fire: This is easily one of my favorites from the set- and optimizing it was fun as well. There's a lot of different ways to get a 201 score, and even a couple variations for 201.8. Honestly, my biggest complaint is that you can't get 202, and that's not even really a complaint at the level! Aesthetic is borrowed from J.B.'s "Multipurpose Tool", and I think this level improved on the design.
Mangled Zephyr: Aesthetically this level is stunning. Casually, it's alright, though it is a little finnicky in Lynx. To optimize, this is a beastly challenge: 136 requires a perfect route and perfect execution, and there's a lot of small opportunities for spring slide overrides, especially in the last part of the route.
Facing Worlds: Controller and Boss glitch says hi. That's really all this level has going for it- a neat (and potentially dumb) trick for the bold route.
Slurmy Slonka: The first of two blob levels in the set- the blue locks are a nice touch, and the recessed walls play nicely as a way to shortcut- or be safe on that tile once.

(levels 11-20)

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Florid Outlands: Honestly, I found this one a little dull. Again, the aesthetics are very nice- Eddy, you definitely have a lot of skill there- but the level itself both feels a little too simple and a little too obtuse. I'm not sure how it is, but it does to me. So that's how it is.
Phase Shifter: This feels like a more gameplay-intensive Teleport Depot, and that's a good thing. Very enjoyable to play, route and execute.
Incisive Paragon: Just going to echo Miika here- this level feels like the proper evolution of the "Memory" concept. Many have tried, but this is the first level I've seen do it well since the original.
Mincome Arcology: As mmoraleta pointed out, this does feel like Andrew's "And The Walls Kept Tumbling Down". It also feels like Josh's "Aesthetic Junkyard', albeit less so. Overall, it does enough different from its inspiration (s?) that it stands apart, but it's ultimately nothing special. Fun to play, though.

Cloud City: As I write these comments I'm finding it's really hard to give distinct feedback on every level without resorting to chipster-style one-liners. Cloud City is a straightforward romp with a little bit of puzzle and a deceptively tricky to score bold time. Lots of boosting here- probably the 5th or 6th toughest route to execute in the set.

Flea Market: Feels like one of Andrew's "x^2 Cell" levels or J.B.'s "Chipped Teeth" scaled up slightly. That scaling makes the bold much easier to score, though this was still a tricky one. Fun to play casually with the open nature of the collection and swapping, yet constrained nature of the design and passage between rooms.

Grudge Match: Intelligent teeth manipulation

...no seriously that about all I can say to sum this one up. For a "do the same thing four times" level it never feels stale, since the teeth causes some variations.

Blue Ridge Corporate Center: Honestly, this level pushes very close to ripping off Josh's "The Glider Identity", as both its structure and room challenges are identical. That being said, there's enough little things this does differently: most notably the clone machine sections. This is also the first level in the set I was able to squeeze out a new record on, even if it was a joint record with J.B. I found the specific trick to gain an extra second, but not the overall route structure to gain that second. It's a pretty cool trick too- now go find it James

Golgi Apparatus: Alright so this is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I actually did not enjoy this level, either casually or optimizing. There's a lengthy leadup to the puzzle itself (collecting the chips) and then while puzzling you have to sometimes time things precisely, and dodge near the end. It's a short level but it still managed to frustrate me. Had the level started in the third room, perhaps I'd have enjoyed it more, but it wouldn't have changed that I'm not really a fan of the admittedly novel concept.

Lithium-Ionized: When I first saw this I wrote it off as a ripoff of Carousel that would be tough to optimize, and stopped working on the set then. I was mistaken- it's aesthetically similar to Carousel, but that's where the similarities end. With the overall structure as well, there's not really any variations on when you can collect certain chips. Overall, I didn't have too much fun with this one, but it definitely wasn't bad.

(levels 21-30)

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Breen District: Personally, I didn't enjoy this one one too much. The idea of blue walls progressing to show where invisible walls are is a very nice one, but I feel that it could have been done better than with a teleport "maze". And really, it's just teleport into the next room and clear out the chips. Optimizing, it has a little more depth but ultimately just felt kind of tedious to route.

Pattern Recognition: Arbitrary blocks passing through walls = another really slick aesthetic. The level itself feels almost like a play on Andrew's "Constant Vigilance" but does things distinctly. I'm not sure how I feel about this one overall.

Disturbed Sanctuary: Not a fan, sorry. The bold was pretty annoying too.

Boldercrap: Whoa, a new spin on Amsterdam! That was always one of my favorite levels from the original game and seeing a new take on it, with the same tiles is amazing. This might just be my favorite level from the set.

Residue Processing: Josh's "Phoenix" aka Tyler's "I Don't Know Why No One Has Made a Maze Using This Concept Until Now" concept + something from Eddy's "Inverted Sugar" and "Pincer Movement" + a little bit of my own "Gravity Well". That's a lot of concepts! The force floor room is a little annoying when optimizing, and casually the level feels unconnected. It's another fine level, but it has the unenviable task of following up Boldercrap.

Avoidance Tactic: Worst level in the set for me. In MS, about 10-15% of the time the teleport gets stuck and the level is unsolvable. Sorry, bad seed, try again. It takes over 10 seconds to get to the point where you start doing anything, and then it's just "left, right, left right" repeated a few times. The bold route seems to require 1/144 luck due to the randomization method picked: there's better methods of random generation that don't potentially cook the level, too.

Digital Distortion: Concept lifted from Andrew's "Tanks, Toggles, Traps". For such a small level it's actually quite interesting to play. I'm impressed by the casual and optimization depth here- the bold route took me a while to crack due to the right side.

Sealing Wax: I feel like I've seen a level like this elsewhere before (Josh's "Before the Snowstorm"?) but this has no puzzle to it. And that's fine- it makes the level a relaxing block hunt!

Orbital Station: I don't like the glider/trap room. I really like the rest of the level, and the optimization potential such a small area holds. Just as an example: the teleport used to get to the chips can be used as a shortcut while doing the sokoban portion. I'm not sure what J.B. missed here, but I'll gladly take a b+1!

Dixie Flatline: Monsters travelling through a hallway like this is nothing new, and the level doesn't do anything new with the concept. I don't like playing the concept too much, so this level was just 'okay' to me.

(levels 31-40)

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Matrix Splitting: An unabashed clone of Puzzle Box that I think improved on the formula a little bit. With the optimized route, it's almost a little too easy, and for anyone looking: leverage that green key for as many extra keys as you can, and work backwards from there. It was a lot of fun to work on, and I went from "how is 242 possible I'm getting 210-220" to "ohhhhh that's a 230" to a 240, to 242 and realizing I missed a small timesaver for 243 and b+1.

Bamboo Forest: Nice work Josh and Eddy, this is a really fun level.

Feeble Existence: When I first saw this I brushed it off as a clone of Key Color. And that's really what it is, though there are some fresh ideas and implementations. The bomb section borrows an idea from Josh's "blah blah Worrying blah Bomb" (yes I know the title I don't feel like typing it all out even though this parenthetical is longer than that and yes I know that makes no sense deal with it) and the lack of randomness is VERY much appreciated after the awful time I had bolding Key Color. Casually, it's alright, and optimized...there's so many little things to think about. This is a perfect example of a lengthy level that's reasonable to optimize andjust complicated enough to make me think I might still be missing something. Well done on crafting a level that's more interesting to optimize than to play! (+3 on Eddy / +16 on J.B.- nearly two thirds of my lead)

Serenity Now: Nice little puzzle, I only wish that there were multiple solutions to the top part. For solving, figure out the the fireball first- the glider follows afterwards.

Torn Landscape: There's a certain charm to a 'ruined' level with a structured design that's very hard to pull off. Yet this level does it flawlessly, with repeated sections that are still subtly different. The best route isn't clear for such a linear level either- so this is another top pick from the set for me.

Zero Potential: Smaller version of Josh's "Frozen Over" or my "Frozen Forethought". Kudos for not taking the obvious adjective for the name there! It's a little rigid for my liking due to the size and chip placements and the best route takes a few half waits, though.

Exchangement Palace: Every set seems to have one of these: a level that's well designed on all counts and a really great concept, but I just can't enjoy. Usually, optimizing these at least proves interesting, but this was just plot a path -> 292, plot another route, 299, swap a chip around and 301 (-.9). I can't really pinpoint my issue with this design and I want to like it :/

Blockade Runner: A common design trope these days is mazes that have impermanent walls. This is an interesting case in that it's really only a malleable maze when optimizing, and it's a little frustrating to score an optimized route here because the blobs get in the way randomly- I think my 341 route had an overall 1/200-1/300 chance of success with not really anything I could do to change it. An interesting design concept that in the end doesn't really have much of an impact casually, and optimizing it adds routing depth at the cost of gameplay fun.

Recurrence Relation: Feels like a light version of Josh's "Echo". I think I prefer this one slightly, but only because Josh's level has a couple easily missed chips on the inside.

Tooth Skin: This puzzle plays with your expectations so well- not surprised J.B. missed a second, but I am surprised I found it. I wouldn't have thought to look for more had I not jumped straight from 957 to 960 with one block location realization.

(levels 41-50)

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Disjunctive Syllogism: Andrew's "Corresponding" light! The force floors and locks don't really add a lot here.

One Who Raids Tombs: Feels like a new spin on the dirt+block level trope- lots of hidden stuff here and a lot of optimization depth. Props to J.B. on finding 471 here! Each room is pretty interesting on its own as well.

Seven Layer Salad: I didn't like this level when I first played it, but optimizing it changed that around! So many clever little tricks, fun boosting sections (not the ending) and apparently enough to be found to gain 4 seconds over J.B. and 2 over Eddy. I know one of the things J.B. is missing and I think I know what Eddy is missing, but who knows? It's a fun one to work on though.

Forage Whitaker: I really like this level- it's a "find the order" level that's simple but fun to solve. Can't really say anything more here!

Slipgate Complex: Andrew's "Automatic (Caution) Doors" redesigned. Nothing really new here other than the socket room, which again highlights that they really should be used more often.

A Fine-Toothed Comb-Over: Sapphire Cavern with teeth. Designed at around the same time as my "Seeing Red" and Josh's "Gone to Lunch", which is interesting that three red key and teeth themed levels were designed so close to each other with different gameplay. Routing this was easier than Sapphire Cavern due to extra keys- I had more trouble managing the teeth than getting enough keys.

Nova Prospect: At the time of this writing, the only bold in the set I lack. As an optimization experience, I hate it. As a casual experience, this is amazing except the toggle section in the middle.

Anomalous Materials: Obligatory sokoban level. The progression method is pretty neat, and I like how you don't have to go in order if you don't want to.

Forgive Us Our Trespassing: In the immortal words of chipster: "that's a nasty dodging level". It's not too bad, but I did need to route it to solve at all and that's a little annoying.

Tank You Very Much: This tank level is probably my favorite tank level ever The block room is a little mean in Lynx but this level is just so much fun. I managed to find b+3 somehow.