Tornado Pack - Discussion

[Flareon350]

This is the official discussion thread for CCLP4 voting's Tornado Pack. Feel free to share your thoughts, opinions, and comments on the levels here!

[Motekopasznyaku]

Gonna try giving a few thoughts to a some levels here -



1. The Maze That Turned On and Off
The "turning on and off" aspect of the maze felt like a fun little trick to use against the Teeth monsters here

14. Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis
What a name. Also, welp, I got fooled the first time I played through. Just personally though, I feel like this would've been nicer if the chip count weren't so rigid, where you could collect a few of the optional chips and still win. I dunno, that way, you could still complete the level without immediately understanding the gimmick right at the very beginning. Despite that though, by the time I realized I got tricked it would've surely still have been too late.

17. Adrenaline Rush
While it wasn't exactly difficult, I don't really like how all movements in the route for this level feel very forced. Also, moving through the path "perfectly" with even-step in Lynx gets you killed, which doesn't feel very fair.

20. That Ticking Noise
An alright little level, but I'm genuinely surprised there wasn't any actual ticking sound playing throughout the level.

22. Numeral Soup
Wonderfully set up level, though while passing through the blue outer walls to reach some of the unreachable rooms was clever, I thought it Might have seemed a little too subtle...or maybe I'm just a little bitter at myself for taking so long to figure it out. Oh well, I still very much enjoyed this level.

24. Green Light District
This concept seemed awfully simple, but I feel like it had the perfect length to not seem too short or too long for what it is and could maybe serve as a decent little breather level or something.

26. Rapids
This level just seems like an odd, giant mess. I guess it could serve some challenge in optimization but other than that it just seemed very lacking in anything notable or challenging for normal play.

27. As Per the Mutations
As mentioned in the skype chat, I found a pretty huge bust in this level, where you can just grab use the suction boots to grab a yellow key, use the blue key to grab a red key (exiting on the force floors both times), and then you can use the red & yellow key to grab the green key and essentially skip to the final part of the level. Personally though, I kinda like the level better with a bust, as otherwise it's just kind of tedious. The way I see it, sure you could do it the simple, long way...Or you could try to figure out a less obvious, but faster path to break the system.

31. Propaganda
The way this level is so open, but still kind of tricky with it's setup gave it a rather odd feel in my opinion, not that that's a bad thing at all though. I liked it.

38. Count the Steps
Nice unique puzzle idea, I enjoyed playing and solving this series of puzzles.

40. Nova Prospect
I liked the idea of the push-up walls between the sort of randomly placed rooms that you'd probably need to go back and forth between, with the sort of comfort that it didn't matter which room you collected the last chip in. The actual layout of this Maybe seemed a little messy, and the amount of push-up walls was maybe too high to really serve as a proper challenge, but I still thought highly of this.

42. Deficit
Neat, deceptively tricky little puzzle

43. Build-A-Bridge Workshop
I thought it was interesting that two Build-a-Bridge Workshop levels both happened to be in this set, albeit in the wrong order. Personally though I thought this one was better than 2.0 though, as it felt nicer for it to be so much more open in terms of where you can take your paths, whereas 2.0 seemed to be very linear.

45. Blocked In
Cool tricky level setup with the blocks. I do really feel like a higher time limit would really benefit this level though, for all the thinking involved & the option to explore and look around at how everything's connected.

46. Double Time Warehouse
I thought this was a really great puzzle setup, but I felt like maybe the level went on for too long. The first three puzzles here were great, but when getting to the 4th one, I thought it seemed too reliant on guesswork due to being so big, and going through the first three each attempt felt a little tedious. I dunno, maybe I'm a little impatient, or could've physically drawn a map of the last area or something, but I feel like this level would've been much nicer with just the first three. Still really liked it though.

48. White Hole
Man, this was difficult for me, but so satisfying to finally figure out. Some of the force floor movements required to get the chips afterwards though felt really stressful though.

49. Stress Reliever
Waiting for the random monsters to die just felt more stressful than relieving to me.

[Ihavenoname248]

27. As Per the Mutations

As mentioned in the skype chat, I found a pretty huge bust in this level, where you can just grab use the suction boots to grab a yellow key, use the blue key to grab a red key (exiting on the force floors both times), and then you can use the red & yellow key to grab the green key and essentially skip to the final part of the level. Personally though, I kinda like the level better with a bust, as otherwise it's just kind of tedious. The way I see it, sure you could do it the simple, long way...Or you could try to figure out a less obvious, but faster path to break the system.

I spent a while trying to come up with a way to fix it without breaking the aesthetic, found a method just I thought worked but just made it worse and ultimately elected to make two small changes to make the busted path a little longer/harder to find. Very nice find though!

[chipster1059]

1: It's a good thing there are extra chips.

2: I played this in JCCLP2, and it's all right.

3: Another JCCLP2 level, this one better than the previous one.

4: Really interesting concept.

5: I can't figure out how to get the second red key... EDIT: Andrew Menzies, this level's creator, showed me how to reach it. It's a fun level, better than the Zane level of the same name.

6: CC2 level titles are annoying. This one is better than the CC2 version (obviously) but the time limit is too strict.

7: Not one of Jeffrey's best levels.

8: The tank part is slightly frustrating.

9: Annoying, strict time limit, don't even get me started on MS boosting...

10: This was in the original JCCLP, and is a really hard puzzle.

11: One of the best ice mazes in voting so far.

12: ...and again and again and again...so annoying...

13: This gets slightly annoying.

14: This is a level where the chips must not be picked up. I think Exhibit Hall is probably the best of such levels, and this one is not that good.

15: The concept of something being infiltrated is something fascinating, but it would be better if Chip actually infiltrated the monsters' lair instead of vice-versa.

16: There are plenty of extra blocks. Too many. In the end, I really don't like it.

17: I played this in CCLP1 voting and didn't solve it. Now, I solved it in odd-step. In the end, it's surprisingly fun, but I doubt it will appear in the final set.

18: This is amazing.

19: Crazy.

20: The best part of this level is the hint.

21: Another level named after a CC2 level before CC2 was available. However, I like neither the CC1 nor the CC2 level.

22: A lesser remake of Alphabet Soup. I thought levels like this had stopped being made a long time ago...

23: A fun level, not too large or anything.

24: Annoying invisible maze.

25: It gets repetitive.

26: This is really weird. This level is just simple chip collecting, the water has no purpose, the force floors aren't an obstacle...

27: Just an itemswapper, but a manageable one.

28: Some rooms are good, but others are not.

29: It gets repetitive after a while.

30: This is in voting? I thought this was one of random 8's levels that I wasn't able to test?

31: Surprisingly hard.

32: I find this level rather annoying.

33: Why does Chip start on floor it's so ugly! Also why do all "don't dig out the monsters" levels have to be on small islands?

34: It's nice to see the buttons work counter-clockwise, but unfortunately this only forces the player to walk more than necessary.

35: Even as a lesson level, this is disappointing, as Chip doesn't even have to deal with the teeth for most of the level, he can just leave them there do their teething.

36: This feels like a Graduation style level. As that it works, I guess...

37: Weird level. It has plenty of extra blocks, and some video game reference I don't understand (and don't really care), it's really just carrying blocks from one end of the level to the other.

38: I don't know what to say about this. Basically, this involves counting the steps the paramecia makes, or guesswork? Either way, I find this absolutely annoying.

39: I think this was in Zzt, and it's a really hard sokoban.

40: It's fun, but nothing special.

41: I think I played this in CCLP1 voting. It's not really that good a maze.

42: Thank you for not spitting out cherry stones, and the alternative is staring right at you!?

43: Interesting how both Build-A-Bridge Workshops are both in the same voting pack. I prefer this one.

44: Creative concept.

45: It's a fun level, the ability to explore the level from the outside is a nice touch.

46: Great level, better than Bam Thwock (I'm too lazy to check the spelling).

47: The trick is somewhat clever, but does it really warrant its own level?

48: One of my least favourite Jeffrey levels.

49: I played this in CCLP1 voting. The title has unfortunate implications...

50: There are extra blocks. It's...ordinary. Sorry.

[jblewis]

This pack had a promising start, but many of the levels that followed felt like puzzling inclusions in CCLP4 voting. Then, the quality started to rise at the end. Some thoughts below, as usual...

#1 (The Maze That Turned On and Off): My absolute favorite in the pack. Terrific scaling with the "maze" size, a welcome touch with the extra chips, and some thrilling close calls make this a blast to play. There isn't another teeth melee level quite like this.

#4 (Build-a-Bridge Workshop 2.0): Both this level and its predecessor appear in this pack, but in the end, I prefer the open nature of the other more than this one. This isn't a bad level, per se, but the restrictive nature of the bridging made it a bit less fun for me.

#9 (Marble Run): Were those invisible walls really necessary?

#19 (A Block's Life): This is a level that demands a non-trivial amount of time and attention in order to solve it, but the satisfaction of doing so feels amazing. I think what makes this level work is that the bottom section where most of the puzzle is located is of manageable size; each of the rooms feels distinct from the rest, but it's up to you to figure out how they all work together. A brilliant design all around.

#22 (Numeral Soup): This level is constructed well, but CCLP4 needs far more original content than this. It was also quite frustrating to find out that you had to actually use the blue walls to cross between rooms.

#32 (Tomb Wader): There are just some levels that succeed at being epic campaign levels, and this one hits all the right notes: room-by-room navigation and revisiting that feels interesting, a variety of challenges, and a brilliant aesthetic. Wastelands of Tabora by the same designer I prefer slightly over this, but this is still a very solid entry.

#38 (Count the Steps): This felt like one tedious game of trial and error. Sorry, but this just wasn't very fun.

#40 (Nova Prospect): The ball/RFF exterior was certainly unique, and I enjoyed how each "quadrant" had many of the same types of challenges but felt fairly distinct in its own right. A neat, elegant level all around.

#42 (Deficit): I appreciate when a level looks like it's radially symmetrical but then foists a rather asymmetrical solution on the player. This one was a fun surprise and definitely kept me on my toes with what blocks to use and what chips needed to be collected.

#46 (Double Time Warehouse): I'm going to have to disagree with Chipster1059 on this one - I preferred Bam Thwok over this, albeit only slightly. I appreciated how this level was short and steadily increased in difficulty, but the last room was so large that navigating it felt a tad like guesswork. Still a solid candidate overall, though.

Favorite level: The Maze That Turned On and Off

Least Favorite Level: Count the Steps

[Flareon350]

Now that I managed to give feedback on the past voting packs, I can finally leave some for the more recent ones (and in order too!)

1. The Maze That Turned On and Off

I enjoyed this level for its concept, since there really is no other level like it. However, compared to other teeth dodging themed levels, there are others I like more than this one. Nothing against this level though, as it was still fun to play!

6. Construction Zone

There's nothing wrong with a pure block pushing level like this and honestly I liked this one quite a lot. It might just be me but I felt a lot of nostalgia when I played this level, mostly because there really aren't as many levels of this kind anymore, for a reason I understand though they shouldn't always be neglected. This level changes it up a bit and throws in a few tricky sokoban puzzles at you as well which makes it fun. A strong pick for the final set in my book, with of course a new title since it's the same as a CC2 level. Level titles can be changed, chipster.

7. Satellite Repair

I've never really been a fan of levels like this and this one is no exception. The only level I like with this idea isn't even in voting unfortunately. Spoilers?

22. Numeral Soup

As far as original stuff goes, this level isn't too different than the obvious level it's referencing. However, that does not affect my vote as I still had a blast with this level and actually enjoyed it more than the referenced level. The crossing "rooms" with blue walls might be frustrating yes but it's only done one time and I actually thought it was kind of obvious with the green lock placement. Make those two blue walls surrounding that green locks as well and this level is a solid candidate.

32. Tomb Wader

Gee I wonder what that title references. This is one of my favorite "epic campaign" levels that actually doesn't belong to me. Unlike J.B. though, I would prefer seeing this in the final set instead of Wastelands of Tabora.

33. Sandbug Island

33: Why does Chip start on floor it's so ugly! Also why do all "don't dig out the monsters" levels have to be on small islands?

The only other level like this that is on an island that I can think of is After the Eruption. Even so, I don't see how that's an issue and how that relates to the level's quality. The thing I like about this level is it at least changes it up and makes you work with guiding a block instead of maneuvering carefully to collect chips. There's nothing wrong with the former but it's a nice change of pace for levels like this. It's actually inspiring me to make a level like this myself!

42. Deficit

It took me a long time to find the solution but it was a good feeling to finally figure it out. Despite that, I'm still not too excited to see it in the final set but I wouldn't really mind it as much.

44. Waterways

Would this qualify as a blue wall maze? If it does, it's easily one of my favorite ones and if it doesn't.. well it's still an awesome level. The design of this is flawless in my opinion and it's ultimately an enjoyable level to play. I also had a lot of fun with the block pushing segment and I can't say that about a lot of levels! Definitely a level I would love see make the cut.

46. Double Time Warehouse

I was a huge fun of this level for the longest time and it's still a great level and concept. However, I'm in the same boat as J.B. on this one, in that I enjoyed Bam Thwok a lot more, only because there's more to that level than the concept itself. With this level, I appreciated the slight increase in difficulty as the level progressed and I wasn't so bothered with the last room as much as some others. But I do think the block placements could have been handled better than what they currently are. Still fun to play though!

50. Around the Block

In correlation to my comments on level 6 from this pack, there's nothing wrong with block pushing levels but this one kind of overstayed its welcome for me. I wouldn't call it ordinary like Chipster though.

Favorite level: Tropical Hibiscus (3)

Favorite level that's not mine: Tomb Wader (32) / Waterways (44)

Least favorite level: Introduction to 3D Logic (30)

[Bowman]

#48: White Hole: This level is severely busted. I say this because I can't figure out the intended solution. I stepped on the green button, let the fireball blow up the bomb, and backwards boosted off the force floors to get back. I couldn't figure out the Lynx solution but it seemed like I was supposed to get the walker to blow up the bomb. I never figured out how to do that. Then again, even if I did, that wouldn't provide a way back out so I don't know what the intended solution is.

~Bowman

Edit: Okay, I figured out a Lynx solution but, looking at the map in an editor, it looks like it's still busted. This time, I pushed a block onto the force floor next to the empty clone machine by the walker cloner and blew up the bomb that way, using the recessed wall to get out.