Elephant Pack - Discussion

[Flareon350]

This is the official discussion thread for CCLP4 voting's Elephant Pack. Feel free to share your thoughts, opinions, and comments on the levels here!

[jblewis]

My thoughts on some of the levels (spoiler alert!). Lots of challenging candidates in this one.

#2 (Kinetic Aesthetic): I'm generally not a huge fan of close-quarters dodging levels, and this one leans a little on the repetitive side with all the back-and-forthing involved. But I do enjoy the look of the level, especially with how it takes the familiar, old "elemental quadrants" design trope and transplants it into a ball dodging map.

#5 (Space Station): There's a fine line when it comes to "gotcha!" moments in a game like CC. Some of them involve a clever solution and make you go, "Huh, that's pretty neat," while others bring out a feeling of "Was that really necessary?" Unfortunately, this level involved more of the latter when I played it, particularly with the key-swapping room and with what doors to open on the first trip there. Compounding the frustration was having to redo all the block-pushing and monster manipulation at the start each time. If we're going to have a handful of "gotcha" levels in CCLP4, I think a better candidate is already in this pack: Paradigm Shift (#40), which has little block-pushing and tedious tasks to perform on each go-around. That being said, I did enjoy this level's general aesthetic and inner-outer structure with the chip collection at the end that allows the player to see into all the rooms.

#6 (If I Ran the Zoo): I appreciate when mechanisms in CC can be simplified. Usually, monster manipulation in the game involves block-pushing or something else that ends up complicating everything. (See a level placed a few spots later in this pack, Cavern (#12), for an example.) Instead, this level spells out the objective at the start - direct all the monsters to the appropriate rooms - and gives you a simple partial posting mechanism that allows that to be done with minimal complexity. On top of that, it's a fabulous logic puzzle that can be figured out by process of elimination and gives you all the information you need without having to complete a series of linearly structured steps. A top candidate for CCLP4 in my book.

#17 (Electromagnetic Elevator): There's a term used in the board gaming world - "theme" - that's fairly analogous to what we typically call "aesthetics" in CC. Sometimes, games are decried for featuring a "pasted-on" theme, which isn't always a bad thing. Unfortunately, this level instead feels like it has a bunch of pasted-on elements around what is ultimately a very neat central thematic element (the elevator). None of the challenges felt connected to each other in any way, and a lot of them brought out some frustration (the ball / trap room) or just felt like a chore and didn't bring anything new to the table (the "Cloner's Maze" room).

#24 (Air Bubble): In his LP of Josh-CCLP4, Jeffrey (IHNN) referenced this level a few times as an example of an atypical maze. And for that reason, I love it. Not only is the design neat, but it complements the gameplay. There's a sense of panic that builds when the time limit is low, and you're zipping around finding completely pointless paths and areas that don't serve any function at all other than to get you lost. It's a welcome change from the "space-filling" CHIPMINEs of the world in which practically every other square is used for a path, and chips are located at each dead end. Definitely a top-tier blue wall maze and time crunch level for me.

#28 (Going): I like the general flow of this level, but it's a little too derivative of CCLP2's Creative One-Ways. The highlight was the chip room in the SW. I love completing a bunch of little challenges and then finding a large vault of chips as a reward.

#35 (Teknopathetic): I really appreciate when levels eliminate unnecessary rigidity. This level gives you two paths back to the start to complete in either order but also allows you to revisit most of the content in them if you miss a chip (which I did!). The little jaunts through the monster section at the start are also fun and keep you on your toes without going overboard and sending you into a panic over what to do.

#36 (Chip Leak Watermelon): Not quite sure what the title is supposed to reference, but this was a blast to play. Sometimes spreading a simple puzzle out over a large area makes a solution more difficult to map out. A while back, I made a level called Get the Ball Rolling which basically did this and was rather frustrating, but this is elegant, quick, and a lot of fun.

#39 (Reservoir Frogs): This is one of a handful of levels I made that I really hope make the final cut for CCLP4. Originally, I designed this hoping to create something that featured monsters on a hazard tile. Teeth / water were not only conducive to a navigation challenge in which you had to reach a certain spot in order to advance further, they also provided a neat color contrast. Sometimes, I step away from levels I made a while back and try them again after a long time has passed. Many of them, like some of the ones in late CCLP3, tend to evoke a reaction of "Why did I ever think that was fun?!" This one, though, still held up well on a recent playthrough and can be a fun addition to the introductory tier of CCLP4.

#41 (Malachite): This looks like a block-pushing level at first glance, and it certainly involves doing just that. But it's ultimately a logic puzzle at its core with a healthy dose of mapping dependencies and figuring out what the correct order to complete each task is. Very, very well designed - and a strong contender for a triple-digit CCLP4 level.

#44 (Salmon): I still think this level could be called "Reverse Rat Race." It's a crafty gauntlet with some really neat mechanisms - my only complaint is that the room in the SE feels a little long and disrupts the momentum built up over the previous challenges.

#48 (Transmutation): This is just plain frustrating. Still have yet to beat it.

Favorite level: If I Ran the Zoo

Least favorite level: Typical Hollywood Christmas

[chipster1059]

1: Unusual force floor level. The pattern is interesting.

2: This is level 1 of TS0, I think. It took me forever to beat the first time I played it, but I got it on the first try now. In the end it's a nice level.

3: This level is an interesting concept, but is WAY too small. Also the password is POOO...

4: Another level with an insanely obvious solution once discovered.

5: I pretty much agree with what J.B. already said.

6: The concept is rather unusual, and very confusing.

7: Unfortunately the gliders are affected by slide delay, and there is no obvious way to fix this. Other than that, it's fun, but not really CCLP material.

8: The pattern for the first room is extremely obvious. However, for the last room I have no idea. If I ever do find the code, I may give this a higher rating.

9: I remember playing this in one of the Ultimate Chip sets. It's a decent level, but Jeffrey made far better ones.

10: This feels a lot like Jaywalker in CCLP3, but I think this one is better because it is slightly less confusing.

11: It's one of the best mazes of this type I've seen so far in the packs.

12: A great monster redirection puzzle. At first I thought it would be repetitive, but in the end it's not.

13: All right, just what kind of a hint is that? But the puzzles are very fun!

14: The title has nothing to do with the level. And the level itself is rather ordinary.

15: From JoshL5 and JCCLP2. Fun, but not CCLP material.

16: This one, though, is much better.

17: BUSTED: recessed wall at [23,8] not required. Also the tank section is massively unequal between rulesets. Also, it's quite simply not fun, despite the basic concept being interesting.

18: The sokobans aren't very fun. The paramecia sections are annoying. The block checkerboard at the end is pointless.

19: It's awesome, quite simply. Nothing more to say. Best level in voting so far.

20: I played this in JCCLP2. It's fun and challenging.

21: This is a really confusing, but fun puzzle. It's a good level.

22: So far, I have learned NOTHING from this set apart from the fact that levels can vary in quality much more than previously expected. The glider room is the best one, but the rest is at best ordinary. Putting a walker room at the very end is not a good idea.

23: A decent dodging level.

24: I don't like blue wall mazes most of the time, but if there is one thing I dislike even more, it's blue wall mazes with intentionally low time limits.

25: Surprisingly fun.

26: Very frustrating.

27: Overall, this is a really fun level. The crazy trap connections can be frustrating, but there are plenty of extra keys, so the player can choose to skip them if they want.

28: Fun, but I've seen better.

29: I think this was in UC3, and is one of the best levels of the set. Each room is fun in its own way.

30: Rather easy...probably too easy.

31: This is an interesting concept, but I've seen better levels where too much of one item is bad.

32: The concept of an eternal slide is something I find very appealing.

33: I remember this level from Po100T, but it's really not one of the best levels of the set.

34: Various small fun puzzles. It's a good level.

35: "A tribute to the simpler times of TCCLP" says the hint. And that's why nobody plays TCCLP anymore. The top right corner was especially frustrating.

36: This is quite a puzzle. It's fun.

37: While at first sight it may seem like an interesting challenge, it is extremely easy to cook, and there is a lot of tedious block pushing.

38: The hint leads me to believe this was originally a lesson level, but it is a bit hard for a lesson. Anyway, I would call this ordinary.

39: This concept is absolutely amazing.

40: This was either level 147 or 149 of one of the Ultimate Chip sets. In the end, it does not seem particularly good.

41: I played this in JCCLP2. And in the end, my brain does not work properly. I shall not bore you with pointless technicalities that do not threaten to destroy the Earth, nor am I interested in making sense. Either way, it's a fun level.

42: Basically this level seems to involve memorizing the tank flipping pattern. While this may be an interesting concept, there are 20 chips to collect. Make one mistake and you have to start over. Overall, too frustrating.

43: I tried this in JCCLP2, and quite frankly I don't know what to say other than the fact that the hint is inaccurate (the pink ball at [24,3] cannot blow up any bomb). I will change my votes if I ever make any progress in this.

44: This level reminds me a lot of Rat Race. However, while Rat Race was one of the best levels of CCLP1, this one feels...ordinary.

45: Tank behaviour is different in both rulesets, but this level remains unusual and fun in both.

46: This is a very hard and very confusing level. I will only be able to provide a more precise rating when I have made more progress in it.

47: BUSTED: suction boots not required. In the end, it's a small level that can be quite challenging until the obvious solution is discovered.

48: I agree with J.B. Also, I was probably much less patient than him with this level.

49: I think I played this in CCLP1 voting. While it was too hard for CCLP1, I think it is just perfect for CCLP4.

50: There have been several levels where Chip must simply go from one room to the next, so far in the packs. I don't think this is one of the best ones, but I may change my mind later on.

Next up: Hillside.

[Ihavenoname248]

47: BUSTED: suction boots not required. In the end, it's a small level that can be quite challenging until the obvious solution is discovered.

Actually not busted- the suction boots were put in as an option to make it easier, while not being required.

Source: my brother designed it.

[Flareon350]

7: Unfortunately the gliders are affected by slide delay, and there is no obvious way to fix this. Other than that, it's fun, but not really CCLP material.

43: I tried this in JCCLP2, and quite frankly I don't know what to say other than the fact that the hint is inaccurate (the pink ball at [24,3] cannot blow up any bomb). I will change my votes if I ever make any progress in this.

Yeah I couldn't do much to fix that slide delay issue, except remove the gliders that cause it altogether (I guess I should have done that lol) it might not be CCLP material but it's still kinda fun to play I think.

As for the hint in 43, it's not inaccurate because that ball has nothing to do with the level itself.

[ajmiam]

This set seemed to, coincidentally, be the set of tough (mostly block) puzzles, with several of them appearing in the final 10.



Some of my favorites here:


#6 If I Ran the Zoo -- What an incredibly creative concept! This was fun to figure out. I really like being able to walk around the level freely and the easy-to-use mechanisms for choosing which cage to partial-post the monsters into. I'd love to see this in CCLP4, just as JB said.



#10 Yet Another Pickle -- Teeth dodging in an open space tends to simplify itself to one easy strategy: lure all the Teeth into a clump near you, then hightail it across the level, grab as much stuff as you can, and repeat. The force floors here keep you constantly on your toes, as they ensure that strategy never goes off without a hitch. But since there are just 5 Teeth, which is a perfectly reasonable number to dodge, this isn't extremely hard either, and I had a lot of fun beating this one!



#35 Teknopathic (This is how I first misread its name, and I refuse to use its real name, because the level is not pathetic! ) -- This is a variety level where the parts don't have a lot of cohesion, but I found it incredibly fun to play. I think it's a case of the level hitting the bullseye on difficulty for its length--not so hard as to be frustrating, but not too easy as to be boring. Like JB, I enjoyed the "find the path through the monster trails" section. Also, I nearly panicked when I saw the bombs on the force floor slide, but soon realized the level is kind enough that the force floors won't fling you into them if you sit still and let them carry you.



#41 Malachite -- A logic puzzle that's exceptionally rigid, but it's really not too hard to figure out what gets done before what. If this were bigger it would have been frustrating to try to remember everything to do, but the designer kept the level down to a manageable size.



#43 Death to Us All -- Like Malachite, but trades being a bit bigger for being a bit less rigid.



Honorable mention goes to Reservoir Frogs which other people already mentioned.



Responses to others' comments:

18 [Variety of Brown]: The sokobans aren't very fun. The paramecia sections are annoying. The block checkerboard at the end is pointless.

I liked the sokobans, but didn't like trying not to boost into the paramecia in the ice-corner room in the MS ruleset. A little more breathing room between them would have been nice.

34 [Another Medium]: Various small fun puzzles. It's a good level.

Agreed but I don't know what purpose the tank button serves. It seems you can get the chips and get out of that room without pressing it.


JB and Chipster both commented on Salmon, with differing opinions, but both compared it to Rat Race. While it was definitely designed to be a foil to Rat Race, a notable difference is that Rat Race is pure dodging while Salmon involves both dodging and puzzles. Nice to see some diversity in opinions, even though one of them says the level's "ordinary".

49: I think I played this in CCLP1 voting. While it was too hard for CCLP1, I think it is just perfect for CCLP4.

Not that it matters now, but "Too hard for CCLP1", really? This was only Level 11 in my first set! I wonder what you thought of "Thief, You've Taken All That Was Me".


However, looking back at this level, even though it was made long ago I just now realized that the thief could be replaced by a gravel tile. As of now the thief tile means that if you accidentally re-enter the bug quadrant a second time, you're cooked. However, there's no fire outside of that quadrant, so letting you carry the boots elsewhere isn't a problem, and none of the other quadrants cause a cook if you enter them twice. So if this does get into CCLP4 (and I think it's a fine early level but no standout), I give the staff (hey, that includes me!) permission to make that switch.

[chipster1059]

Not that it matters now, but "Too hard for CCLP1", really? This was only Level 11 in my first set! I wonder what you thought of "Thief, You've Taken All That Was Me".

I remember struggling with the bug/block section quite a bit back then, and giving it a low rating in voting because of that section.

Perhaps changing the thief to gravel would be a good idea.

"Thief, You've Taken All That Was Me" ended up being one of my favourite levels of the set.

Josh: removing the gliders probably would be a good idea (maybe not all three, two would be all right). However, even with that, while it is still a fun level, I don't think it's good enough for CCLP4.

[Flareon350]

Some of my opinions on some levels already mentioned, plus a few others from this pack:

10. Yet Another Pickle

This level originally had 10 teeth monsters, which unfortunately made it too rigid for my liking and ruined the fun this level was meant to hold. After recommending to Rock to lower the teeth count to 5, it felt much more fun and enjoyable to play. Even with the 49 chips to collect, it didn't feel like much of a chore to restart if I ended up getting ridiculously killed by a teeth. This is the kind of level I wouldn't mind seeing in the final set, it was just a bunch of fun to play.

21. Lockdown

A small puzzle level that did not overstay its welcome. The center lock design and how the level revolves around it was very nicely designed as well. My only complaint with this level is the ball dodging at the end but it's not terrible to go through. This is definitely one of my top favorites in voting.

24. Air Bubble

I love blue wall mazes and this level is definitely no exception. It does everything right and even though the time limit is low, it's still manageable. I always appreciate time crunch levels and I really wouldn't mind this one having a slightly lower time limit to around 120. In general, one of my top picks for blue wall levels, and definitely by far my strongest pick for time crunch levels.

25. Firewall

Honestly, this level was not fun to play. While I like that it isn't overly long, it didn't have a lot going for it and just was not interesting. Sorry.

36. Chip Leak Watermelon

This is by far my favorite recessed wall level/puzzle in the voting and very underrated as well. It took a few tries but I was very satisfied to finally solve this one. An A+ level in my book.

40. Paradigm Shift

I said this in my LP of the set this level originates from and I'll say it again. This level is really awesome and performs the "gotcha" feeling so well. It's rigid but not too rigid and I love that. If you make a mistake in solving it, you make the mistake. There are hardly any possibilities to blame the level for a mistake one would make on this. I didn't like the ice slide to the two chips at the start because if you do mess up, you have to take them again to collect them and it just felt annoying to do each time. But I'm willing to overlook this in the long run. Overall, this was a ton of fun to play.

48. Transmutation

While J.B. said this level is frustrating, I have to disagree and say I actually enjoyed this level. However, I do see the frustrating side of this, since the goal is not always clear, especially at the start of the level. After experimenting and going through the beginning force floor section myself (which does cook the level unfortunately), I was able to know the path the block is meant to take. Once that task is done, you have a very clever block puzzle in the north side of the level - of which I will admit does slightly overdo itself but it was executed very well and will give credit to the designer for that. Once the second toggle button is pressed, you're clear for the exit, if you manage to escape that evil trap on the force floors leading to that said toggle button. That part specifically I didn't appreciate but other than that, I enjoyed this level. The time limit is questionable, I don't feel 600 seconds is enough time but I did finish this with exactly 200 left so... maybe 700 or 750 would be more reasonable but it's up to the designer on that one. Just watch out for ramming blocks MS players because it is incredibly easy to do that and it's not always possible to fix a ram in some sections of the level.

Favorite level: Malachite (41)

Least favorite level: Quadrant Connection (47)

[ruben]

8: The pattern for the first room is extremely obvious. However, for the last room I have no idea. If I ever do find the code, I may give this a higher rating.

[Click to Show Content]

The correct x-coordinate is the number of chips on the corresponding row in the middle room (1-indexed).

[chipster1059]

<div class="ipsSpoiler" data-ipsspoiler="">

[Click to Show Content]

The correct x-coordinate is the number of chips on the corresponding row in the middle room (1-indexed).

Thanks! That's a somewhat clever way of providing the information. Ratings updated.