Walls of CCLP3 discussion

[Ihavenoname248]

57 minutes ago, Kataac said:

#3 Mad Bombers (walls from #13 Road Block) This level could use a slight time limit increase.

#7 Blurry (walls from #15 Bumper) Being chased around by teeth in an area littered with hidden walls is not a good idea to build a level around

#9 Technicolor Theatre (walls from #135 Color Wheel) Also, the hint is blocked on all sides.

#17 Massive Mindset Shift (most blocks from #107 Lazy Hourglass) Though I will say that I don't remember there being blocks at the top and bottom of Lazy Hourglass.

I liked the time limit and the teeth/hidden wall concept- was actually pretty fun. The level 9 hint is reachable- flippers to green key to hint. And you're correct that blocks were added, but meh- slightly loose adaptation, I guess?

[Indyindeed]

5 minutes ago, Ihavenoname248 said:

I liked the time limit

Yeah, a time limit increase isn't necessary. I just thought finishing with 2 seconds was a bit too short. Even moving the teleport up to (8,19) would be a convenient way back.

4 minutes ago, Ihavenoname248 said:

The level 9 hint is reachable- flippers to green key to hint.

Oh, I forgot about the green key.

[Indyindeed]

Here is some more feedback. Didn't get much farther...

#17 Massive Mindset Shift (most blocks from #107 Lazy Hourglass) After way too many failures and two times where I realized I permanently missed one chip right at the end, I have finally solved this level! Overall a solid level, I was just being stupid. The only drawback is the ice section, since it can be hard to see ahead to see what blocks will kill you, unless you're insightful enough.

#18 A Moon Shaped Pool (blue walls from #37 Blue Moon) At first, this just looks like your ordinary water maze with gliders and thieves as walls. But as I went on, I realized that the thieves actually could be crossed in some places, and the placement of the chips with the gliders is done very well to the point where I consider this a cross between maze and puzzle. Shouldn't the hint say "blue walls"?

#19 Magnetic Workout (walls from #36 Zelgon's Lair) Funny that Zelgon's Lair came after Blue Moon. I'll get back to you on this one.

[Flareon350]

15 hours ago, Kataac said:

#3 Mad Bombers (walls from #13 Road Block) This level could use a slight time limit increase. I went to read the hint and realized on the way back that I had 8 seconds left! I made it to the exit with 2 seconds left, though I still think it should be increased to 100.

#4 Lush Forest (thin walls and wall from #51 Dancing on Ice) This maze reminds me a lot of Jungle, and I was honestly expecting to see teeth! Good maze, albeit a bit generic.

#7 Blurry (walls from #15 Bumper) Being chased around by teeth in an area littered with hidden walls is not a good idea to build a level around

#9 Technicolor Theatre (walls from #135 Color Wheel) This somewhat ordinary maze became something very special with the addition of red and blue keys to create "Repair the Maze" style sections, and with an awesome aesthetic to top it off. Also, the hint is blocked on all sides.

#11 Cinder Block (walls from #74 Niche) I liked this level except for the recessed wall maze in the middle. There was no clear indication that I had to go to the top first and then leave a path to return from there, and I didn't realize until after I had already gone to the right. I assumed the way you got to the hint was you came back from that section later with a blue key, green key and fire boots, and you would go through a teleport at the top. Maybe you should place a hint at (8,15) that explains this and replace the hint with another collectible.

#14 Frigid Highlands (walls from #44 Tiny Spirals) Good combination of hidden walls and ice, but is there really no point at all to the hint room? There aren't even any chips there, or even a hidden wall maze.

#15 Chip in the Caldera (fire from #55 Construct-a-Maze) I love levels where you have to stop monsters from cloning! Though this level seems easily bustable by pushing a block to (13,17). I didn't pull off any shenanigans myself, but you may want to make a small fix just in case.

#17 Massive Mindset Shift (most blocks from #107 Lazy Hourglass) Argh, I just had the stupidest death on this level after collecting half of the chips! I really don't want to replay the level, so I'll stop here for the night. Though I will say that I don't remember there being blocks at the top and bottom of Lazy Hourglass. The only drawback is the ice section, since it can be hard to see ahead to see what blocks will kill you, unless you're insightful enough.

Mad Bombers doesn't need a time limit increase for something that is completely optional to the player, in this case reaching the hint is. If you want to read it with some spare time leftover, do the cloning faster!

Lush Forest literally only exists because I had to have something out of Dancing on Ice. I like the generic feel to it, I see nothing wrong with that approach in levels! I will consider adding some monsters (not just teeth) in it to spice the aesthetics up a bit for it in the future.

I'd agree with your opinion on Blurry (and a level very, very similar to it) if it was a full map level but given the size I think it's reasonable. I'm taking advantage of utilizing some level concepts I'd normally wouldn't design in Walls of CCLP3 and this isn't the first case of such a thing.

That's actually my favorite bit in Cinder Block! Regardless, I don't think it needs changing to be more clear. It's not that far into the level and there's only so many options you can take with that room anyway. You can even still solve it if you go to the right first by going around to the chip at (10, 12) (where you can also see both the blue key and lock) and still be able to get the blue key and proceed to the next section.

The empty hint room in Frigid Highlands does exactly what I intended - making players think there's hidden walls in it.

Chip in the Caldera isn't busted with that approach, though you can bypass the first two sections that way. However, you might have a harder time getting through the cluster of fireballs to reach the red key if you do that.

You're correct the blocks in the bottom and top of Massive Mindset Shift weren't there in the source level but literally no one else has complained about it so I don't have a reason to change that (though I easily could). As far as the ice section goes I understand your thoughts on that and I realized that while designing. But there is nothing preventing you from going there first if it's problematic for you.

Thanks for the feedback!

[Indyindeed]

Here is more feedback on levels 19-30. I tried to make my feedback more brief this time.

#19 Magnetic Workout (walls from #36 Zelgon's Lair) Finally figured out the glider room, turns out I was just overcomplicating things. Nice to see a force floor level like this every once in a while.

#20 Gloomy Minute Village (walls from #25 Recess) Not a personal vote from me. Levels that use blobs in tight spaces are very hard to do right, and this one just doesn't work, especially when you add a tight time limit. I haven't solved this one, and have no interest in doing so.

#21 Socket Shrine (sockets from #5 Toggle Bust) I would have never thought to use Toggle Bust like this. For a level so oddly shaped, this level does what it does and does it right in such small spaces. I love it.

#22 Chipyard (most walls from #17 Lot in Life) Lot in Life was one of my least favorites from CCLP3. I'm not even sure how to feel about this level. At first it looks like a clone of Hunt without teeth, then you realize there's another exit and the normal route is impossible. So you try to bring a block to blow up the bomb guarding the other exit, then you realize you can't. After a bit of thinking, you realize the glider you used to get out can be used on that bomb. The concept is very clever, but the execution is very strange and it feels like it was forced into the wall layout.

#23 Bacteria Incineration (walls from #52 Dolly Mixtures) He's alive with the fire boots, duh! This maze feels even stranger than the actual Strange Maze, but that's not a bad thing at all.

#24 Contaminated Sewer Lines (blue walls from #11 Blue Blocks) Take notes, Gloomy Minute Village, because this is how to properly design a blob level. Not only are the blob dodging challenges themselves fair, even the one with the blob and the glider, but watching all the blobs drown one by one is extremely satisfying, especially at the end.

#25 Spectral Blood Rave (walls from #22 Damp) Combining chaos with a thin wall maze can be a disaster if it's done wrong (see EricS1.dat #88), but this level's loose structure and even implementation of a difficulty feature with the red key makes it much more enjoyable. It wasn't even that chaotic - I beat it on the first try.

#26 Cosmic Gold Hill (force floors from #121 Jaywalker) Interesting idea. I really appreciate the extra keys and chips.

#27 Blind (walls from #80 Checkers) When I first saw this level, I thought "Oh noooo...", but even without remembering where many of the walls were, I still solved this fairly quickly, and it wasn't so bad after all. I finally know the purpose of that socket!

#28 Hang Glider Smuggler (walls from #140 Yet Another Yet Another Puzzle) When I first played this, I accidentally pushed the block with the hint and thought I had blocked off something important, so I replayed the level only to find out there was nothing under the block. While I really disagree with that part of the level, the rest was pretty solid, albeit a <i>very</i> loose adaptation of YAYAP.

#29 Broken Floppy Disk (walls from #21 Mud and Water) I remember seeing this in the VOD of Jeffrey's create competition results a few months ago. I'm not really sure what the title has to do with the level, but the sokobans are very good, and I love how the sockets and toggle doors come together to essentially make three sokobans per side and two separate levels.

#30 Digitized Disaster (teleports? from #35 MonsterMaze) Reminds me of Orienteering from Jeffrey's Walls of CCLP4, but with teleports and sockets being switched. Not too sure about this one.

[Flareon350]

2 hours ago, Kataac said:

#20 Gloomy Minute Village (walls from #25 Recess) Not a personal vote from me. Levels that use blobs in tight spaces are very hard to do right, and this one just doesn't work, especially when you add a tight time limit. I haven't solved this one, and have no interest in doing so.

#22 Chipyard (most walls from #17 Lot in Life) The concept is very clever, but the execution is very strange and it feels like it was forced into the wall layout

#28 Hang Glider Smuggler (walls from #140 Yet Another Yet Another Puzzle) When I first played this, I accidentally pushed the block with the hint and thought I had blocked off something important, so I replayed the level only to find out there was nothing under the block. While I really disagree with that part of the level, the rest was pretty solid, albeit a <i>very</i> loose adaptation of YAYAP.

#29 Broken Floppy Disk (walls from #21 Mud and Water) I'm not really sure what the title has to do with the level

#30 Digitized Disaster (teleports? from #35 MonsterMaze) Not too sure about this one.

I think Gloomy Minute Village is a good idea of a dodging level and it works pretty well! Not to say it's perfect because it's far from that. It's another level concept I otherwise would have never done outside of this set (like Blurry) and honestly, it's one I now really like! The time limit being tight is intentional and even with the dodging it really isn't that hard of a level either. (Disclaimer: I don't consider this a blob dodging level but they affect the pattern of the others which makes it interesting). Maybe this is a little on the luck side of things but its not unreasonable. Imagine this on a greater scale then maybe this will be appreciated a bit more. If not, then oh well I can't please everyone! This is what I wanted. And as far as you not having interest in completing it - all I will say is you'll never have the satisfaction of 100%ing the set if you don't

I love the concept of Chipyard and am proud of the puzzle. It is very forced because the walls weren't that interesting to use by themselves.

You disagree with something of Hang Glider Smuggler that was 100% optional to players...? I guess I see where you're coming from but you chose to restart instead of playing out the rest of the level which could have been solved. also I'm not seeing how any of this is an adaptation of YAYAP. Because it uses blocks, even though it's clearly a glider themed level?

Broken Floppy Disk is titled as such because the level looked like a Floppy Disk to me.

Digitized Disaster uses teleports that were in place of the toggle walls from MonsterMaze because I had zero ideas for the toggle walls.

Thank you again for the feedback!

[Indyindeed]

1 hour ago, Flareon350 said:

You disagree with something of Hang Glider Smuggler that was 100% optional to players...? I guess I see where you're coming from but again, I'm getting the impression you're basing this feedback on a hope of a first try solve. Besides, you chose to restart instead of playing out the rest of the level which could have been solved.

Fair enough, I just assumed the block had a chip or something. I guess I could have played on, but the block just looked important to me.

1 hour ago, Flareon350 said:

I'm not seeing how any of this is an adaptation of YAYAP. Because it uses blocks, even though it's clearly a glider themed level?

I'm just saying if you replaced all the non-pushable blocks and gliders that don't move with walls, the wall layout is very different from YAYAP. Not that adding your own walls is a bad thing, I'm just saying.

[Flareon350]

8 minutes ago, Kataac said:

I'm just saying if you replaced all the non-pushable blocks and gliders that don't move with walls, the wall layout is very different from YAYAP. Not that adding your own walls is a bad thing, I'm just saying.

If I added my own walls, that would just make this project pointless. The level as it is, is already nothing like YAYAP.

[Indyindeed]

Here are levels 31-39.

#31 Hallway Pursuit (walls from #116 Mini Challenges) This one was really fun. At first I thought the part with the three blocks felt like guesswork, but then I realized pushing the top block first doesn't cook the level. At least I didn't do that and then restart.

#32 Mysterious Geoglyph (walls from #57 Beachballs) This was the other one I remember from the April Create Competition. The puzzles are extremely creative for the small spaces they were built in, especially the nailing puzzle in the center.

#33 Droid Void (walls from #31 Bouncin' Blocks) This is certainly something else. I like it, but I don't know how I feel about it.

#34 My Old Friend (walls from #12 My Friend) Is the blob supposed to represent Chip's "friend" as an old man who needs directions? Regardless, using blocks to trap blobs like this is something I don't see that often, and this one is done decently, though very slightly busted with block slapping.

#35 Landmine Park (walls from #148 Diabolical) You don't see many bomb levels like this, especially not when they use pre-existing wall patterns. This one was done exceptionally well, and I'd even say it's one of my favorites so far.

#36 Gruesome Citadel (walls from #88 Which One Next?) If you skip the row that has the green key, you get stuck at the green doors in the next row. Might wanna fix that. Other than that, good monster dodging level.

#37 Repulsive Shadow Keep (walls from #16 Two Sets of Rules) I saw this one in a screenshot as well but couldn't identify what the walls were from. I haven't solved the beginning yet. Any tips?

#38 Orange Computer Vale (walls from #30 Problem Solver) Problem Solver is, in my opinion, a rather versatile wall pattern to use. I love when fire levels go for a red and yellow aesthetic like this, and I do it all the time in levels myself. The level itself feels like a combination of many things put into one level, which is my favorite type of level as long as it doesn't go on for too long.

#39 Nuclear Unleashed (walls from #75 Chip Alone: Lost in Chip City) YES! I love little references like these! It's a much more fleshed out version of Claustrophobia Road (JoshL6 #113), and it uses a wall pattern from an official set on top of that, and one of my favorite levels too. The length is a little questionable, but that can't be helped with a level of this size.

The set is getting really good! I'm almost halfway there...

[Flareon350]

After a rather long week at work, I have released an update to this set once again! This update features a few fixes but also includes various hint updates to be seen in MSCC since that can be an option once again. The latter of these updates was probably unnecessary but it is here to stay.

Walls of CCLP3

On 8/20/2018 at 3:22 AM, Kataac said:

#34 My Old Friend (walls from #12 My Friend) Is the blob supposed to represent Chip's "friend" as an old man who needs directions? Regardless, using blocks to trap blobs like this is something I don't see that often, and this one is done decently, though very slightly busted with block slapping.

#36 Gruesome Citadel (walls from #88 Which One Next?) If you skip the row that has the green key, you get stuck at the green doors in the next row. Might wanna fix that. Other than that, good monster dodging level.

#37 Repulsive Shadow Keep (walls from #16 Two Sets of Rules) I saw this one in a screenshot as well but couldn't identify what the walls were from. I haven't solved the beginning yet. Any tips?

#39 Nuclear Unleashed (walls from #75 Chip Alone: Lost in Chip City) YES! I love little references like these! It's a much more fleshed out version of Claustrophobia Road (JoshL6 #113), and it uses a wall pattern from an official set on top of that, and one of my favorite levels too. The length is a little questionable, but that can't be helped with a level of this size.

The blob in My Old Friend could represent that but I was more or less going for the fact blobs have been despised by many players, especially in the old CC1 days. I wouldn't say this is busted either but rather a bit looser in Lynx with block slapping. Definitely a concept I think I did right, especially with the space.

Didn't catch that in Gruesome Citadel, this has been fixed in the update mentioned above. Thanks!

For Repulsive Shadow Keep, take advantage of the ice corners

Hey, someone actually noticed and liked the reference I went there for Nuclear Unleashed! The fact it worked out was a real satisfaction. It is a bit long I guess, but I have no issues with long levels that remain interesting, which I believe it is. Regardless, since CCLP3 had a lot of full map levels, this set is probably going to be the case as well unless I can force myself to make smaller and shorter levels with large wall templates.