Facing the Future: What's Next for Official Sets?

[jblewis]

I think the key for now is forming the staff. If you and Jeffrey are still interested in coordinating the project, I'd recommend just starting a thread, saying that you're willing to take on the responsibility, and asking the community if anyone else wants to join the effort. Sounds like you've already got some volunteers. Once that's done, providing the community doesn't object to the staff (and I can't imagine that being the case), you can more effectively start making decisions about submissions, submission caps, voting, and the like. If there's a dedicated group of people stepping up to the plate, participation will happen, and the conversation won't die out again.

[ruben]

I voted for option 1, but I don't necessarily think CCLP4 should be made before CC2LP1. I think a CC2 pack has a better potential to be great, but it might be a good idea to postpone it a bit until more custom levels are available.

[Hash1]

About two years after the post before this one, but I've been giving this some thought lately, and this is my idea:

CCLP4 has been released as a CC1 LP, as we all know, and it seems like option 1 is what the community is going for. But I'm not going to talk specifically about CCLP4 and CC2LP1, but instead, about future levelsets in general.

My idea is that we go for CC2LPs for some time. The way they would be is that people can submit CC2 levels at their will, and anyone can also submit CC1 levels at their will. Most or at least half of the set would consist of CC2 levels, and a percentage or half of the set would consist of CC1 levels.

Maybe the CC1 levels could be released in their own levelset to be played with CC1 (or CC1 clone), despite not reaching 149 levels. Although to be honest, I don't think many of you would be in favor of a levelset of less than 149 levels (for it is seen as a sacred number of levels for official levelsets). Making this levelset doesn't have to be a thing, though, only the CC2LP one.

After releasing two or three levelsets containing CC2 levels (for example), we can go on to making CCLP5 (yes, a CC1 levelset that comes after CCLP4). The next levelset would either be CCLP6, before going back to CC2 levelsets, or another CC2LP without creating CCLP6 first.

All these last examples I am putting is assuming there will still be a good enough Chip's Challenge fanbase going on in several years from now, as official levelsets need at least a one year gap in between them, but I just wanted to show the pattern it would be following.

Another factor is the future CC1 would be facing. Maybe over time the majority will have CC2 (or a possible fan made clone). And wouldn't be as interested in CC1 levels anymore, so nobody would care about more CC1 official levelsets being released, so only CC2LPs would be created.

About this last thing I said though, I'm going to give my personal opinion: we have spent so many years loving and enjoying CC1, that even if it recieves less attention, I don't think we would all abandon it completely, we would probably still be making CC1 levels every now and then if you ask me.

[hkn]

Chip's Challenge is the game that defined my childhood. I continue to enjoy it in my limited spare time, but have no plans to touch the second game (certainly not as long as it remains only available on Steam with no official community packs).

There remains growth potential (and thus scope for official level packs) for the original game. Windows is no longer the dominant casual gaming platform (consoles are more for hardcore gamers). That title now belongs to the device that shaped the last decade: the iPhone. Releasing Chip's Challenge on iPhone and Android would increase the playerbase. However, the mobile version would require its own official level pack (many levels in existing official packs would be virtually unplayable with touchscreen controls) and slightly altered rules. (Of course, versions for major consoles would also help attract new players and retain existing ones, but not as much as mobile versions.)

Among the existing official packs, I only consider CCLP1, CCLP3 and CCLP4 worth playing. The original 149 levels retain their nostalgic value but have been superseded by CCLP1. With too many mediocre levels and invalid tiles, CCLP2 is a warning that we should not rush with the first official community pack for CC2. To me, only a remake (worst levels replaced, no invalid tiles or major busts) would redeem CCLP2. I tried CCLXP2, which does not go far enough but shows that such a remake is possible.

[Ihavenoname248]

CC2 will remain exclusively on Steam for as long as it continues to be sold there. As to why, it's simple to look at the reason Tile World was originally created and later superseded MSCC. MSCC was no longer legally obtainable, and computers were coming along that could no longer run the game, so a replacement clone/emulation/whatever term you want to use needed to be created. CC2 needs no such tool for the foreseeable future. The editor, on the other hand, can be replaced as it would just be a new way of creating the content, and I know a decent amount of people are waiting on the new editor to begin creating more CC2 content. Once some has been created, a CC2 community pack will certainly follow. But from the tone of your post, I take it a CC2 community pack that can still only be played through Steam isn't quite what you want

As for mobile ports, there actually are (very inaccurate and deprecated) ports for both ios and Android- Will's World and Rommy's Gauntlet. They didn't take off, and in fact were completely ignored outside of people who already knew of CC. However, Chuck's Challenge 3D was originally a mobile game, and did decently well. The only thing that held it back was a lack of a way to stitch together multiple user levels, which completely prevented any community packs for the game. I can understand different levels for touchscreen controls, but that would create a watered down experience- and why alter the rules that have served us so well? At that point, whoever is creating the port would be better off building something new, inspired by CC instead of what will be seen as a failed recreation.

Fun fact about CCLP2: most of the disliked levels in the set weren't picked due to lack of other options, but instead because nearly a dozen levels weren't included because the staff couldn't contact the designer for the final okay. Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with invalid tiles, as long as they're used carefully. They're very easy to do wrong, after all. The standard for level design these days is also a lot higher, so even if we went into a CC2 community pack construction with only 500 or so levels to choose from (CCLP2 had ~1300, CCLP3 had a few thousand after ineligible levels were removed, CCLP1 and 4 had roughly 3.5k valid levels as well) the level of quality would be much higher. CCLXP2 was not meant to be a remake of CCLP2 that fixed every flaw, but instead meant to be a Lynx compatible version of the set- with everything that meant. Busts weren't fixed to stay true to the original experience (though switching to Lynx did fix some such as Trapped, but also allowed more such as Zartacla), and no levels were replaced for the same reason (though obviously, some underwent massive changes as the original concept could only work due to invalid tiles or MS-only mechanics, with a level that captured the spirit of the original in its place).

[H2O]

As can be seen in the cc2info download, there are 1274 level in the database, which does not include any ported sets, single levels not in sets by their authors which are available for download or any other sets from me other than mind games or any duplicates from anyone. The original levels and rejects are however included, over all this would mean there are currently slightly less than 1000 levels which could be in voting which were made for cc2 and currently public. There are several authors which I guess would submit levels before voting, even if their sets aren't completely finished and therefore not released at the moment, which means there most likely would be over 1k levels currently and probably some ports from levels for made for cc1.

If you look at the average level quality for cc2 levels (and I played them all), it is actually really good, way higher than what I've seen in the voting packs for cclp4, which means it's right now no problem to assemble a community set consisting of 200 levels

And generally it's better to put less levels in voting packs so that more people can vote on most of them than too many which leads to some sections are played by just a handful of people. To select 200 levels for a set there probably shouldn't be more than 600 levels - which would have to be preselected - in voting to keep it reasonable in this regard.

[mmoraleta]

I would love to see a CCLP5, there are still some levels in the community that are good for an official set. I believe that CC1 is still dominant despite CC2 being out for 2 years.

[H2O]

CCLP4 just came out, so yes, currently a lot are playing cc1 levels again, yet as you can see above when CC2LP1 comes out, the same hype will be around cc2 hopefully, after that with CCLP5 cc1 again, then CC2LP2 and who knows what comes next

Sounds like a plan and I love it when a plan comes together

[Flareon350]

You make it sound like playing CC1 levels again is a bad thing. Also I don't agree with a CC2 community set having 200 levels, I don't think that's necessary personally.

[random 8]

CCLP2 is a warning that we should not rush with the first official community pack for CC2.

CCLP2 was released about 10 years after the game was ported to Windows. If that's "rushed," then how long do you want us to wait?